Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,781
# 21
12-11-2012, 05:28 PM
hopefully this bootcamp shows some people that balance isn't nearly as bad as so many think. sure, there are problems, and overpowered crap that has been added that can turn any clean competition on its head. im not talking about is an escort with DHCs though.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 22
12-11-2012, 05:47 PM
Lovely, more PvP elitism. Back in the real world, any player with half the STF experience required for a Mk XII set has seen Extend Shields, and has probably had it used on them and been impressed by its power. They may not be familiar with APA specifically, but they certainly understand the idea that many abilities boost firepower. Many will even have builds significantly better for STFs than a build designed for PvP. That's not to say that PvE builds are better than PvP builds, or vice versa, rather they are optimized for the different conditions of the two modes of combat, and the different playstyles they require.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
PvE doesn't require anything other than sheer damage. If anything is narrow in scope it's the PvE builds (fail builds that are generally poorly balanced).
Certainly PvE builds are narrow in scope to the extent that they are designed to fulfill their role in PvE, and lack counters to some standard things in PvP. But a build that does its job to the exclusion of everything else is not necessarily bad. In fact, it may be good, since it does not waste its limited abilities, weapons, and consoles on things that it does not need to do.

Putting a PH on a cannon or DBB/turret sci in PvE, for example, would be a waste. Speed is not a significant factor in survivability for PvE, in fact standard tactics call for reducing speed and sitting almost still in space in order to keep all weapons and abilities on a slow moving target like a cube. Under those circumstances, being trapped in a tractor beam simply doesn't matter, and PH would be a waste of a valuable ability slot which can be better used on a heal, a shield drain, or even a tractor beam.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 221
# 23
12-11-2012, 09:36 PM
Its an interesting idea, but I think to many people have experienced being killed every 20 seconds over and over to want to go back again. And Kerrats not the only map that can be spawn camped. Just because its not 'honorable' doesn't mean Johnny Street Captains not going to do it.More than likely you'll get the 'Its in the game so its okay' excuse.

The PvP system as a whole needs an overhaul, or at the very least a seperate que for pre-made teams. Theres nothing like dropping into a pug and seeing the other teams all made up of fleetmates to know your about to be violated with no lube.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 24
12-11-2012, 11:13 PM
It can be simply balanced by doing either:

A. Disallow any and all special consoles from PVP and make it vanilla ships only, and by vanilla I mean no cstore, lockbox or special ships.

B. Keep all consoles and special ships, but make all of them available to everyone for free in pvp. That way no one has any edge over anyone as everyone has access to the same ships and consoles.

The second option would be the better one in my opinion. This is similar to how GW2 does PVP....
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,055
# 25
12-11-2012, 11:19 PM
I may be not good at pvp, but isnt the problem with pvp the balance and the fact that there was no support for it over the years?
obviously we need something like this to get some ppl into playing actual pvp, but if it is going to stay the same, there is no reason to assume, thing will be different this time, and pvp will flourish
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 26
12-11-2012, 11:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
I'll take any of my PvP builds or any of the other builds from PvPers against any PvE build any day.

PvE doesn't require anything other than sheer damage. If anything is narrow in scope it's the PvE builds (fail builds that are generally poorly balanced).

yes ,but sometime you need or better said the difference is made by traits not by wepaons/consoles .At that point people will come here on the forums and rant about no way to retrait characters (I did that few times ) .
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,213
# 27
12-11-2012, 11:54 PM
It's a good thing that PvPers do something about the state of PvP!

However, I have a minor nitpick about the blog post: "I should be unstoppable" is not the general idea of most people who try PvP, and then jump off disappointedly. I think the most common thought is more like "I should not be blown away like some NPC frigate in three seconds. That is humiliating. It should last a minute, so I can see what is going on."

And that is something that some balance fixing (scale down both damage-increasing powers and healing/resistance powers) and alternative PvP modes will help with: Smaller teams, a 1v1 queue (with some time-limited objective apart from "blow the other ship apart" to prevent a draw), more open PvP maps like Ker'rat (and Ker'rat should be fixed, spawns separated, and please remove the annoying warp sequences that have scored so many kills.)
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,549
# 28
12-12-2012, 12:08 AM
I must disagree about them fixing PvP before we start doing something like this.

Why?

Because we've been having this same circle, continuously spiraling over and over for a very long time. Cryptic says 'we will balance everything and fix PvP' etc etc, then they don't, and PvPers stay or go. If they stay, they continue as things are, and move on from there. This has gone on and on.

So, to quote First Contact (not very original, I know)

"The line must be drawn here! This far, no further!"

In this case, the boot camp. If more people get into PvP, that means potentially more voices for PvP, who will want these changes, enough to actually make it worth their while, and perhaps we'll at long last see something happen.

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 136
# 29
12-12-2012, 07:07 AM
Even if the prise was a Holo Branflakes , you wouldn't get me to play PvP again. I used to play a lot in the beginning, but got feed up with fleets of professional cheaters using exploits to win at any cost and Cryptic doing nothing about them. Now PvP will be pay to win. You will need ships from the C-store or a level 5 Starbase, and weapons from the said Starbase. PvP isn't about player skill as it is in some other games but buying power and exploits.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 73
# 30
12-12-2012, 08:06 AM
i appreciate that somebody took the time to improve the gameplay for the community.



yet appreciating somebody to teach how to ride a bicycle with one octagonal wheel, instead of two round wheels, is pretty futile.

u learn how to ride the bike.
you learn how to speed it up, keep your balance and the ride might be a bit bumby, but u get to your destination. thats good and all, but fixing the bike or getting a new one, might be better.

there are two options if u have spent a lot of time for a project but is not satisfactory.
- you can improve and fix what you have or
- start all over

depending on your ambition and skill, the result can be quite pleasing.
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