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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,251
# 71
12-11-2012, 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirlettia View Post
I thought the main reason the Bortasqu ost money is because all the time leading up to its release we were saying how much we loved it as it had plenty of potential firepower and a pretty neat ability to tank.

Just before it got released however they nerfed its turn even more, gimped its cloak and moved all shield defenses onto Sci slots which the Bortas is severely crippled on. Basically they killed it for us just prior to release.

I wouldnt have a Bortas pack now if it was given away as a bonus to buying a Hydrospray.
I think you've just solved the mystery.

In testing the Bortasqu was getting rave reviews and then Cryptic severely gimped it before it went live.

I had forgotten all the rage posts about how the Bortasqu was crippled beyond all belief but the Odyssey was barely touch and pretty much played the same has it was on tribble.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,203
# 72
12-11-2012, 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
The BoP could be called 'iconic' because that's pretty much all we ever saw in TNG and later. There were exceptions, but not many of them.

I'd agree that the D7 is also an 'iconic' ship. They've been around a lot longer, and strongly identified with long before we ever saw a BoP. But now that I've flown BoP's I have a hard time wanting to fly a battlecruiser.

I'd have to agree with the Bortasq' not being a ship I'd want to fly, let alone buy. I have one of the freebies and I've never bothered to unpack it after I'd test flown one and saw all of the stats. On the other hand, I was sorely tempted to buy an Oddy pack even though the inertia makes it a beast to pilot. But, for now, I'm sticking with my free Odyssey.
Well, not to get pulled into the 'most iconic' debate again I'll concede that BoPs were seen more post film era, my guess is with empire dying BoP's were cheaper to build and crew so there likely were more on patrol while larger ships were aiding in the evacuation of the homeworld.

That does not explain why the game chose to include more powerful versions of a scout ship than the mainstay of the Klingon fleet for generations. Having started this game in BoPs and eventually test flying the free D7 I quickly moved to the more balanced (and powerful) Raptor class but wish to return to the cruiser IF cryptic could figure out that a battlecruiser is NOT a science ship nor healer. They gave us a tactical Bortas that can't turn around without the gravatic help of a nearby star, so why can't they do the same for our iconic battlecruiser (with better than cruiserlike maneuverability)???
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 456
# 73
12-11-2012, 03:00 PM
I play KDF, but I don't like Klingon ships. I've bought the Orion, Gorn and Nausicaan ships because I love their designs. Too bad there aren't bridges to go with those ships.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 539
# 74
12-11-2012, 03:26 PM
Corry to drag up the "iconic" thing. D7 is clearly the most iconic TOS KDF ship. Post-TOS (Films and later) the BoP has clearly become the ship we se associated instantly on screen with the KDF.

Yes there are other examples, just not as common is all.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 75
12-11-2012, 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmalak1 View Post
Well, not to get pulled into the 'most iconic' debate again I'll concede that BoPs were seen more post film era, my guess is with empire dying BoP's were cheaper to build and crew so there likely were more on patrol while larger ships were aiding in the evacuation of the homeworld.

That does not explain why the game chose to include more powerful versions of a scout ship than the mainstay of the Klingon fleet for generations. Having started this game in BoPs and eventually test flying the free D7 I quickly moved to the more balanced (and powerful) Raptor class but wish to return to the cruiser IF cryptic could figure out that a battlecruiser is NOT a science ship nor healer. They gave us a tactical Bortas that can't turn around without the gravatic help of a nearby star, so why can't they do the same for our iconic battlecruiser (with better than cruiserlike maneuverability)???
Regarding the BoP/Raptor setup: I agree, I don't really see why they put in the raptors. The Bird of Prey class is just as oriented for DPSing, albeit with more maneuverability. With the universal consoles, it's also a jack-of-all trades. . .except for the fact that it can't tank as well as an escort, let alone a science ship or cruiser. That limits what it can do, as most BoPs have to rely on their battlecloak to stay hidden and choose their battles.

All you would have to do to obsolete the raptors would be to buff the BoP hull and shield mod. That's the biggest difference that I can see. So yeah, the raptor class never made that much sense.

If the BoP could reasonably stand in as an escort and as a light tanker/shield tanker, I would have much less issue with there being no dedicated science class for the KDF ships, since the BoP does an ok job at using sci builds. The universal boffs work wonders in the right hands.

Of course, then the Feddies would howl and whine about it being 'OP!!!', and demand a counterpart or a nerf. . .despite the advantages they already have.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 76
12-11-2012, 07:19 PM
Regarding iconic ship styles: I personally don't care what my Klingon ships look like. With the amount of abilities being used in PvP, the appearance of your ship is meaningless because you can't see it clearly half the time. Not to mention I spend most of my time cloaked.

As long as the ship has the general Klingon 'look' (wings with engines, central portion, and then neck section jutting forward), I could care less about the aesthetic details. I care far more about the stats. The looks aren't a factor at all when I'm considering a ship's merits, beyond an initial 'not bad' when they come up with a particularly cool looking design. I personally find it confusing that someone would seriously wave away a ship's disadvantages with the logic of 'It looks COOL!!!'.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,203
# 77
12-12-2012, 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
Regarding the BoP/Raptor setup: I agree, I don't really see why they put in the raptors. The Bird of Prey class is just as oriented for DPSing, albeit with more maneuverability. With the universal consoles, it's also a jack-of-all trades. . .except for the fact that it can't tank as well as an escort, let alone a science ship or cruiser. That limits what it can do, as most BoPs have to rely on their battlecloak to stay hidden and choose their battles.

All you would have to do to obsolete the raptors would be to buff the BoP hull and shield mod. That's the biggest difference that I can see. So yeah, the raptor class never made that much sense.

If the BoP could reasonably stand in as an escort and as a light tanker/shield tanker, I would have much less issue with there being no dedicated science class for the KDF ships, since the BoP does an ok job at using sci builds. The universal boffs work wonders in the right hands.

Of course, then the Feddies would howl and whine about it being 'OP!!!', and demand a counterpart or a nerf. . .despite the advantages they already have.
Before TNG I never knew raptors existed, always figured there were unknown classes between the raiders and the battlecruisers but never gave them much though. After they were introduced I figured they were more of a fast attack gunboat (like WW2 light cruisers) but noticed as more of them were put on screen, the more powerful they became. We've reached the point (with STO) where BoP's (who are so messed up sizewise due to faulty canon) and raptors (a recent addition to canon) are more powerful than the warship that introduced the warlike race to fans, and dwarfs both in size and longevity.

IF either were more powerful or preferred by the high command a fleet of BoPs would've met 'the cloud' in the first movie -or- a fleet of either would've escorted Chancellor Gorkon in the undiscovered country, or he would've used either one as his flagship. Neither was the case.

Sorry for the rant but I'm a HUGE fan of the D7 and I hate to see it treated like the red-headed stepchild - too many years playing starfleet battles and starfleet command 2.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,032
# 78
12-12-2012, 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmalak1 View Post
Before TNG I never knew raptors existed, always figured there were unknown classes between the raiders and the battlecruisers but never gave them much though. After they were introduced I figured they were more of a fast attack gunboat (like WW2 light cruisers) but noticed as more of them were put on screen, the more powerful they became. We've reached the point (with STO) where BoP's (who are so messed up sizewise due to faulty canon) and raptors (a recent addition to canon) are more powerful than the warship that introduced the warlike race to fans, and dwarfs both in size and longevity.

IF either were more powerful or preferred by the high command a fleet of BoPs would've met 'the cloud' in the first movie -or- a fleet of either would've escorted Chancellor Gorkon in the undiscovered country, or he would've used either one as his flagship. Neither was the case.

Sorry for the rant but I'm a HUGE fan of the D7 and I hate to see it treated like the red-headed stepchild - too many years playing starfleet battles and starfleet command 2.
Sorry, if this appears to be nitpicking but I certainly hope you're referring to Birds of Repy here, not Raptors.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,203
# 79
12-12-2012, 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
Sorry, if this appears to be nitpicking but I certainly hope you're referring to Birds of Repy here, not Raptors.
No, raptors.
BoP's have existed since TOS, tho movie canon messed that one up too.

I was flying a klingon F5 frigate in 1983 when I got my copy of SFB (was NOT a BoP on any level), could it have been a raptor ?
KBF Lord MalaK
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Last edited by lordmalak1; 12-12-2012 at 08:49 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 130
# 80
12-12-2012, 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by errab View Post
I think you've just solved the mystery.

In testing the Bortasqu was getting rave reviews and then Cryptic severely gimped it before it went live.

I had forgotten all the rage posts about how the Bortasqu was crippled beyond all belief but the Odyssey was barely touch and pretty much played the same has it was on tribble.
so does anyone remember what stats it had before all those nerfbat hits it recieved?
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