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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,992
# 31
12-12-2012, 02:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
Why would my ship get blown up Starships can take at least a few hits un-shielded without immediately exploding, and by placing the Kobyashi Maru between my ship and the Klingons, they wouldn't be able to get in so many clear shots...
Why would your ship blow up? Very simple: Sustained fire by a overwhelming force = Death.
See... nothing to be confused about.

The test is designed to make the cadet fail... You can be 100% sure that the second you dropped your shields, a weapon would hit your nacelles, rendering warp inactive... The simulation would certainly have a function installed to prevent you from pulling of a "trick" as plain and obvious as the one you suggest.

Even with full shields in the beginning, without the ability to escape, you'd be torn to pieces in minutes.

It's not just about getting them off the ship, it's about saving them. If they beam to your ship, and you then blow up 5 mins later because you could not get away, you would not have saved anyone.
My name may say "PWE member", but I will never be.
-NEVER Forget the Screwups and ignorance made towards the people who supported the game through 2011
Don't look silly, don't call it "Zen-Store" - Don't waste devs time, Post proper bug-reports

Last edited by anazonda; 12-12-2012 at 02:49 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 32
12-12-2012, 02:49 AM
I bet tom paris passed first time (His dad is an admiral and fixed the program)

Also Wesley (he is the Writers inner self)

And lets not forget Julian Bashir who no doubt beamed to the klingon ship in full evening dress allowed himself to be captured
learned the self destruct codes and blew up the ships
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,363
# 33
12-12-2012, 03:32 AM
I like the test, as many have said already it judges the participants ability to stay cool under pressure. Personally I think it's also a good insight into the would be captains ability to think and act on behalf of the Federation, perhaps even before the safety of himself, the crew and the ship.

If I were grading Kirk I would have put a thick red cross next to his name - sure he doesn't like to lose and he does all he can to win and they are handy qualities in a captain. But to me it gives the impression that Kirk put's his pride before the Federation. A suspicion proved true when he disobeys orders in Search for Spock.

Picard on the other hand, I'm sure he would have passed.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 281
# 34
12-12-2012, 04:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daiouvegeta2 View Post
Just what a little internet searching can do on a subject.

Chekov evacuates his ship and then crashes it into the three Klingon cruisers, destroying all four ships in the process and (inadvertently) all of the evacuees as well.

Sulu realizes it is probably a trap and refuses to cross the Neutral Zone.

Scott bypasses the Klingon shields with an unorthodox technical trick that could only work within the simulation's physics model, and not in reality. Although he is initially successful, the Enterprise is eventually overwhelmed by a continual stream of Klingon reinforcements. Scott is then reassigned from the command track to engineering, which was his intention all along.

Kirk reprograms the simulated Klingons to be afraid of "The Captain Kirk," arguing that he expected to build a comparable reputation.

Nog is also mentioned to have solved the scenario in two entirely different (and thoroughly Ferengi) manners.

The test is not to see how they face life and death. It is to test what happens when they are put under extreme stress, the decisions they must face, and how they will act in those circumstances.

Take Sulu for example. His exam probably stopped the moment he decided not to enter the Neutral Zone. Did he fail? No, there is no failing, he averted an entire war at the loss of a single ship.
Technically, Sulu passed. His response was to not enter the NZ, but to wait for subspace instructions to come from StarFleet Command, which arrived too late. However, a potential war was averted. Sulu was given command of the Excelsior for taking cautious, yet proper action, under the circumstances.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 281
# 35
12-12-2012, 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daiouvegeta2 View Post
Think about this though.

You have entered the Neutral Zone when you were not authorized to do so.

The Klingons entered the Neutral Zone to protect their borders.

A fight ensues.

Just say for a moment that you rescued the Kobayashi Maru's crew, killed the Klingon aggressors, and warped out.

You saved 170 people from certain death at the hands of the Klingons.

You have killed 300+ Klingons in the fight.

You just sparked an interstellar war with the Klingons that could claim the lives of billions on each side.

That is the point of the test, to see what you will do in the face of the circumstances. Not whether or not you can beat the Klingons in a stand up fight.
The point could be made that the Klingons initiate the war, by responding to hails with their disruptors.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 281
# 36
12-12-2012, 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
"Open hailing frequencies

Good afternoon Captain I am (insert name rank and ship) Who do I have the honour of addressing?"

(wait for reply)

"Do you require assistance with your rescue of these civilians ? I am aware of the efficiency of Klingon vessels but we are standing by to assist should you require it "

Pause for effect/reply

Lay it on with a trowel
mention honour
Your respect for them for going out of their way to rescue defenceless civilians
Mention that you will report this in detail to command so that their renown spreads

Remembering that Klingons are very proud (and Noble) This would work
And its LOGICAL
Nope. Unless you change the program like Kirk, the Klingon's response to hails are disruptor/torpedo fire.

More like this:

"Good afternoon (afternoon?) captain, whom do I have the honor of addressing?

"Captain, they're charging weapons!"

"Tactical, reroute all available power to shields!"

"But captain, we'll lose them if..."

"Two more have just decloaked, and are approaching on attack vectors!"

Boom, boom, boom... boom boom!

"Damage re..."

BOOM!!!

Overhead lights come on, fans are heared whirring up, clearing smoke from the simulator, as a neat, if not slightly, smug looking, Vulcan instructor enters the simulator.

"This concludes your examination for today, Commander Solvax. Feel free to contact academy scheduling, on your way out, for a retest date, if you so wish."

"Thank you... for your... cooperation, today."

Last edited by mkilczewski; 12-12-2012 at 06:12 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 281
# 37
12-12-2012, 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
That's pretty much incorrect. There are a number of situations where an unshielded hull breach did not result in the immediate destruction of the vessel (the Defiant comes to mind, even though it was destroyed in the end, it was not due to that). The original Enterprise was destroyed by auto-destruct, although it was crippled with decent torpedo shots. Note that the Enterprise, in the second movie, sustained at LEAST one torpedo strike with minimal or no shields. The Enterprise-A, in fact, sustained a very severe torpedo strike causing a hull breach straight THROUGH the saucer when the shields had collapsed. And a freighter is not going to have the armor or redundancy of a ship built for deep space exploration and possible warfare.

That said, in TNG it WAS stated that a single torp could blow up the Enterprise if fired too close to the ship (I believe it was the episode where the Pakleds were involved).

However, as the Enterprise-D sustained several torpedo strikes during its final battle, it's not exactly consistent. While the Enterprise-D was ultimately destroyed, Geordi seemed pretty convinced that it was the final strike that actually caused the damage that led to the warp core destabilizing and ultimately breaching.
Here's the deal. Your shields are down. Multiple torpedoes are striking your ship from multiple sides/angles. Your name winds up on a plaque at StarFleet Academy, and your ship is considered "Lost in Action", somewhere near the Neutral Zone. End of simulation. That's just how it is, the way StarFleet designed it to be.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,537
# 38
12-12-2012, 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anazonda View Post
Why would your ship blow up? Very simple: Sustained fire by a overwhelming force = Death.
See... nothing to be confused about.
And the scenario ensured you'll face sustained fire - you meet the Klingon attackers long before you can even reach the Kobayashi Maru. You needed to brave the attack all the way there and all the way back, outnumbered by superior ships the whole way.

The no-win goes farther than that, though. To even theoretically hope to succeed, you needed to engage Klingon ships inside Klingon territory. Even if you somehow win, whether by tactical genius or just plain cheating, you've created a major international incident that could plunge the Federation back into war with the Klingons. The fact that the Klingons fired first will not be particularly significant when you performed the first act of war by violating the neutral zone. It might save you from a court martial, the Klingons themselves won't be particularly worried about those details.

Last edited by hevach; 12-12-2012 at 06:35 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 39
12-12-2012, 06:37 AM
Actually
as soon as they charge weapons the order is

"Fire the oblivionator"

All the klingons die and I cruise home

meanwhile the Instructor says "Bloody pay to win consoles"
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 40
12-12-2012, 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkilczewski View Post
Technically, Sulu passed. His response was to not enter the NZ, but to wait for subspace instructions to come from StarFleet Command, which arrived too late. However, a potential war was averted. Sulu was given command of the Excelsior for taking cautious, yet proper action, under the circumstances.
Technically, Sulu still failed. He failed to save the Kobayashi Maru's crew. That is one of the primary objectives of the test. Regardless of the theoretical ramifications that may have happened if he did not do so, those people still would have died and that would have been on Sulu.

He was also not given command of the Excelsior because of what he did on the test, the test is given to Cadets, not Captains. It may have played some part in getting him the command, but it was not a deciding factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkilczewski View Post
The point could be made that the Klingons initiate the war, by responding to hails with their disruptors.
This point is invalid, you crossed into the Neutral Zone first, without permission. That's all the enemy cares about, especially a war based enemy that is just looking for a reason to fight you.

[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent

Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
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