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Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
From the developers?

To start I want to present a huge thanks to our revolutionary Sargon. Havent it been for you, this newfound interest in pvp would never have taken place. I too want to thank Borticus and Brandon for showing their interest and supporting us from Cryptics side. Heck I wouldnt even dare write this post if the evidence I will now write about didnt present itself... as it did.

So...

Yes yes I know, its an old topic, debated, dicussed and beaten to death over and over. But NOW my pvp friends on both sides, we have come to a turning point, to our Stalingrad. Thanks to the pvp Boot Camp, we the community have finally spoken. Long ago a certain dev gave in to despair and wrote the following, i quote:


"Before I was given PVP I had other day to day and week to week tasks that filled out my schedule. I had STF's and other stuff. That other stuff is being moved off of my plate to other new content designers. Which by the way is a answer to another question I noticed earlier, the fact that we now have a few more people in the design department is a direct result of PWE. If we didn't have additional staff, this wouldn't be happening.

Oh and for the record... I asked to be given PVP, it wasn't forced on me. I personally think it has a great deal of potential, it just needs attention."

"Right now because PVP is in such bad shape we (the developers) have to decide if we think we can turn this problem around. Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way."

End quote.


Well well, do I got a newsflash for you!

If we exclude the current active to semi active pvp population, we have in this thread the hard evidence. There are more then 200 applicants ALONE who says pvp MATTERS to them. And this thread is growing and growing and still very fresh! So I ask and that very zealously: Does the Senior Devs still think pvp isnt worth commiting resources towards when we the paying customers show such a huge interest in pvp exist?

If you ask me its about due time! 2 bloody years of neglect, that now more devoted time and hard resources should be commited towards this aspect of the game. In the end it was we, the PLAYERS of this wonderful game that managed to demonstrate that we WANT a functional and developed pvp. Whats sad is that the game developers who are suppose to promote their game in all apsects, both pvp and pve, failed at this. Still there is room to forgive and improve, to realize that the pvp aspect of the game is now on the move. We refuse to be neglected no longer.


So what say ye?
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 95
# 2
12-12-2012, 05:08 PM
I used to login a few hours a day everyday to pvp i loved with a passion it was so fun. Now i only play a match or 2 the fun is almost completely gone. I used to have 9 active toons i am now down to 3 and soon might be less because i can't keep up with the grind " i dont like pve" i havent registered to the boot camp because i feel the situation is hopeless and don't have the energy right now to help. Over the years i have helped 100 of players with builds and play styles. Most of them don't pvp anymore because there is no reward attached to it and i can't blame them it's a sad situation.

For most players pvp is something you do while waiting for pve cooldowns.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,547
# 3
12-12-2012, 05:21 PM
my thought as well. look at all those people that are signing up in the thread, how can pvp development continue to be pushed aside now?

these arent all the people currently playing ether, a great many of them could be the teachers. from what i saw a large number of those signing up have a 1 by their experience. they would like to pvp, but its unapproachable to them, until now.

pvp needs attention from the devs, and it will be played. especially if a slew of new players will soon be equipped with the knowledge needed to compete. just look at the STF revamp, content that was hardly touched turned into the most played thing in game.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 4
12-12-2012, 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkdown1 View Post
Most of them don't pvp anymore because there is no reward attached to it and i can't blame them it's a sad situation.
This. This right here. This is the crux of the problem. There aren't enough rewards associated with PvP activity. From a resource-gathering standpoint, there's zero reason to do PvP over PvE. It doesn't even reach parity. I don't even think you can reach your daily refining cap off of what's offered for PvP. If you can, then you probably can't do it every day. . .because there's some sort of weird time-gating system with a few of the missions that makes them disappear for 3-4 days at a time.

Want to revitalize PvP? Attach some real effing rewards onto it. Make the 'Ship Killer' mission against the Feds into a 20-30 ship count mission and boost the reward to 1k/1.5k dilithium. Give us specific ship kill missions (kill 10 science ships, 10 cruisers, 10 escort, w/e). Establish a decent system of rewards, and you'll see a lot more people trying their hand at it. That, combined with efforts like the Boot Camp, and other efforts by helpful PvPers, will help make PvP something relevant to the game at large.

Another suggestion would be this: Establish an in-game ranking system, tied with the factions at large. I.E., every time a KDF player defeats a Federation player in space, add a point onto the KDF side. Vice versa for Feddies. Also establish an individual-level system, so that players can compare and contrast the amount of kills they have and compete over that.

Fix Ker'rat so it's not a buggy POS (complete with stretching Borg ships, Borg and player ships getting stuck in the environment, etc) and increase the user capacity of each zone. While you're at it, add more spawnpoints and get rid of the moronic 'restart spawning Federation and Klingon players at the same point'.

There's no shortage of ideas as to what could be done, and I'll bet they would make PvP a lot more appealing to players who want more of a challenge, but don't see the point of doing PvP due to lack of rewards.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,245
# 5
12-12-2012, 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
This. This right here. This is the crux of the problem. There aren't enough rewards associated with PvP activity.
It's a curious thing, imo, how normally I would suggest that the PvP itself is reward enough for and from the PvP...

I generally believe that. I kind of prefer that - in casual PvP games. In more...I hate to use the term hardcore...pressing PvP games, where you're fighting for territory - your city - etc, etc, etc - literally, not just faction - but if you lose, you lose big... well, there are those additional rewards, etc, etc, etc.

However, I can't really make that argument in this case - not for STO the way it currently is (especially now during the Winter event as well).

So I'm running four toons.

Now each of these of these has different time requirements...

But I'm running four toons.

And I'm grinding:

EC to pay for Rep stuff.
Dil for items that I've gotten and I'll eventually get from the Rep stuff.
Romulan Marks (as if a Red Alert will ever work for me again).
Omega Marks (only doing Infected Elite (others regular), because I'm not risking my time on failing other ESTFs).

I'm also DOFFin'.
I'm doing the daily race for the Chel Grett.
I'm doing the FE Reruns (because stupid me has a stupid tendency to delete my stupid toons).

During this time, I'm also working on their builds - doing replays for different gear, buying more DOFFs to try different things, buying gear to try different things, etc, etc, etc.

Before S7... even with rerollitis, it took no time to level (have done it too many times, so it's fast) and then a night of STFs to at least be able to 2+2, 3, 4, or maybe even a decent 2+2, etc, etc, etc. Most of my time was therefore spent over in PUGland in the queues or hanging out in Ker'rat. The PvP was it's own reward.

There's just no time for PvP to be it's own reward at this point...meh.

I actually spent an hour in Ker'rat tonight - I got lucky with some drops I sold that meant I didn't have to do the EC farming bit. Course, it put me a little behind on my Marks and Dil farming... but I needed a break. It was a blast.

It's just not a blast that time really allows for these days...

...maybe in another week, I might do it again.
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Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 6
12-12-2012, 08:00 PM
I think it's just too early to tell still.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,006
# 7
12-13-2012, 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
[...]But NOW my pvp friends on both sides, we have come to a turning point, to our Stalingrad.
We were winning and are now bound for a disastrous defeat due to incompetent micro-managing leadership at the top?

(Which is to say: Such historical metaphors work badly with an international audience. )

Quote:
[...]
So I ask and that very zealously: Does the Senior Devs still think pvp isnt worth commiting resources towards when we the paying customers show such a huge interest in pvp exist?
I don't believe that they think that. PvP has huge potential in any MMO, as a revenue generating device. They will be fully aware of that. But they also know what amounts of money other parts of the game can generate for the company. So they will set their priorities.

They got a lot of new people this past year. Those needed to learn the game, learn the dev tools, become competent at the game and the game development. This all takes time, which is money, and to earn that money, they may have to not do PvP. Yes, that is possible.

Quote:
[...]Still there is room to forgive and improve, to realize that the pvp aspect of the game is now on the move. We refuse to be neglected no longer.


So what say ye?
I say: You cannot force the dev team to do anything that doesn't fit their schedule. And you shouldn't try. You should not have any expectations, this game is their job, not yours or mine. We are just consumers here.

We can offer feedback, we can make constructive suggestions, that's it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.

Last edited by sophlogimo; 12-13-2012 at 12:32 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 8
12-13-2012, 01:55 AM
Serious commitment for ~300 players on a event which was announced on the main page? This number really shows the state of pvp in STO.

How many of them just take part to get the free respecc or the Accolade? STO has more accolade hunters than PvP'ers ;-)

To get more casuals in the queues we need:
a) more advertising on the main page. Something like the 101 dilithium but for PVP.

b) more rewards (MARKS and EC). So that a casual player doesn't have to decide between the Tau Dewa Daily, an STF or PvP. Grinding is more enjoyable when you can decide where to grind xD

BUT you have to remind that STO has a rather small playerbase! Many of them are here to play something that feels like StarTrek. They want to phew phew with a big cruiser. A lot of them are so casual gamers that they even struggle with the NSC winter race :-)

This reminds me of my girlfriend. She is a huge Tolkien fan since ever and has a lifetime abo for LotRO. Has only one max lvl char. Is seldom in a instance. AND NEVER HAS TRIED PVP. And never will. Reason: she just wants to hang out in Middleearth with her elf hunter ;-)
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,006
# 9
12-13-2012, 02:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luxchristian View Post
[...]
BUT you have to remind that STO has a rather small playerbase![...]
Hm, what's your source for this? Numbers I can find on the Internet look like something in between of 100k and a million subscribers (some of these numbers seem outdated, though), plus any silver players.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 10
12-13-2012, 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Hm, what's your source for this? Numbers I can find on the Internet look like something in between of 100k and a million subscribers (some of these numbers seem outdated, though), plus any silver players.

They had for Beta one million subscriber. After that the number felled to ~100.000.
Which isn't really bad for such a small clich? MMO like STO. I'm sure they are now very profitable.

I know getting hard numbers on MMO's is hard . This is the best I could find in a short time.

http://hailingfrequency.com/boards/n...-subscribers!/

http://mmodata.blogspot.com/


It is just that only a rather small percentage of a MMO's playerbase is interested in PvP. With a small playerbase it gets rather hard to have a lot of people in the queues.

The problem is that we have a self fullfilling prophecy here. Without proper rewards, advertisement, new content, bug eliminating PvP will decline. With declining usage of PvP content Cryptic can't justify spending money on it ...

They must also invest ressources and hope that it increase revenues. Because only PVP'lers really need respecs, doffs, P2W consoles etc. ... PVE players would be more in love with new clothes, pets and shipsskins.

I hope that they will concentrate on PVP AFTER they added more story content ;-) (Sorry, but I like PVP only as a casual xD)
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