Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 294
# 101
12-12-2012, 09:37 AM
notice cryptic being decidedly quiet regarding all of the broken/missing things from the reputation system. It's like they're playing some kind of ultimate troll game. Even some of the more reserved people on the forums are getting pissed. Just.... why? Please, cryptic, just give us an honest answer to that question, why?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,694
# 102
12-12-2012, 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darimund View Post
well I can guarantee this, and again, something overlord Stahl can factor into his metrics, I will absolutely NOT play anything else this company produces. Believe me, i'm well aware of the harsh reality that PWE got my money for this sub, and its a mistake I flat out refuse to repeat.
But are you going the extra mile and telling all your friends of your personal experiences with Cryptic?

I am. I also do my utmost to provide them with a lens through which to filter all the nice things NW is hyping. See, having worked in management I can tell you that the only thing that will shake things up enough for STO and CO to have a real hope of improving is that NW fails and (as unlikely as it is due to the usual corporate egos) that resources be rerouted to STO and CO. STO may be hiring but clearly needs more experienced devs working on it... ideally devs that would have enough care to test an item before putting it in the rep store..... Over in Co things are far more dire than in STO, the longtime players are pretty much accepting it has entered maintenance mode .
Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 5
# 103
12-12-2012, 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darimund View Post
I'm glad that one got fixed. However, their efforts hardly seem adequate. Here we are almost a month now after s7 launched, the thread on borg one shotting folks in estf continues... how about the exploit in the winter event? Id almost bet money that one doesn't get fixed because it wont be around after a month. How about the omega engine not reducing the cool down on transwarp? the list can get pretty long if we're gonna say what they fixed vs what they haven't. I admitted as much that they do fix some bugs, but the vast majority of them, they don't fix, and they barely comment on them one way or another.

Ok you have to wake up and smell the coffee mate.


Blizzerd entertainment, creators or world of ******** THE BIGGEST MMO. (And I belive still the most popular though not by as much these days) Had bugs from ALPHA.

One I recall well was a silly little bug that made a paladin buff show the wrong icon on the buff bar, They finally fixed it in the Wrath of the litch king expansion, Thats what 4-5 years to fix an ICON.

Now in retrospect cryptic I think have done well considiering there size compared to blizzerd.

Can they do better, deffinatly

Will ranting and raving and starting cryptic bash threads help, doubtful.


Ask yourself this...

Whats more important

Fixing a bug that causes the game to crash for 3% of the player base

or

Fixing a glitch that causes the AI to get stuck, a torp to not display correctly, the wrong sound effect ect for everyone..

Answer: the crash bug ofc.


Now ask yourself whats more important

Fixing a glitch that causes the AI to get stuck, a torp to not display correctly, the wrong sound effect ect for everyone that is just a small annoyance,

or

Making content for 70% of the player base thats burning it faster than cryptic can make it.

Answer: the content, why if theres no content cryptic lose 70% of there customers.


General bugs are Usually done by a small part of the team in ANY GAME DEVELOPMENT.

And there done in order of severity.

- Game crashes/lockups

- Login/account issues (Also have billing and account support for this)

- Hardware related issues (Overheating/compatability issues)

- Movement/travel bugs

- Combat bugs

ect ect

Graphical/sound bugs are so far down the list you can't even see them.


No If they switched all there team to bug fixing, yes they would squash all the bugs within a month maybe two.

But then they would be four months behind any other content, 70% of the player base would just leave due to lack of content, and then the game would compleatly die and be shut down because of negative profits.

There team is what maybe 30 or so strong, (Might go up now the merger with VW is done) Think about all the different jobs that need doing, you will answer most of the why questions yourself.
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 294
# 104
12-12-2012, 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elexier909pw View Post
Ok you have to wake up and smell the coffee mate.
I don't drink coffee, and I'm quite awake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elexier909pw View Post
Blizzerd entertainment, creators or world of ******** THE BIGGEST MMO. (And I belive still the most popular though not by as much these days) Had bugs from ALPHA.

One I recall well was a silly little bug that made a paladin buff show the wrong icon on the buff bar, They finally fixed it in the Wrath of the litch king expansion, Thats what 4-5 years to fix an ICON.

Now in retrospect cryptic I think have done well considiering there size compared to blizzerd.

Can they do better, deffinatly

Will ranting and raving and starting cryptic bash threads help, doubtful.
blizzard is/was also wildly successful, not to mention they also had a strong customer support policy. Cryptic isn't and does not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elexier909pw View Post
Ask yourself this...

Whats more important

Fixing a bug that causes the game to crash for 3% of the player base

or

Fixing a glitch that causes the AI to get stuck, a torp to not display correctly, the wrong sound effect ect for everyone..

Answer: the crash bug ofc.
Well lets see. Hrm a bug that effects 3/100 people or a bug that effects 100/100 people. Sorry but when I asked myself this question, my priority would be the bug that effects everyone. But here's the kicker, all of them should be addressed in a reasonable amount of time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by elexier909pw View Post
Now ask yourself whats more important

Fixing a glitch that causes the AI to get stuck, a torp to not display correctly, the wrong sound effect ect for everyone that is just a small annoyance,

or

Making content for 70% of the player base thats burning it faster than cryptic can make it.

Answer: the content, why if theres no content cryptic lose 70% of there customers.
Here, once again, I asked myself this silly question and the answer I come up with is, so what if production is delayed by a few weeks. work it must, shine it may. No matter how much you try to polish a turd, it still stinks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elexier909pw View Post
General bugs are Usually done by a small part of the team in ANY GAME DEVELOPMENT.

And there done in order of severity.

- Game crashes/lockups

- Login/account issues (Also have billing and account support for this)

- Hardware related issues (Overheating/compatability issues)

- Movement/travel bugs

- Combat bugs

ect ect

Graphical/sound bugs are so far down the list you can't even see them.


No If they switched all there team to bug fixing, yes they would squash all the bugs within a month maybe two.

But then they would be four months behind any other content, 70% of the player base would just leave due to lack of content, and then the game would compleatly die and be shut down because of negative profits.

There team is what maybe 30 or so strong, (Might go up now the merger with VW is done) Think about all the different jobs that need doing, you will answer most of the why questions yourself.
I don't see anyone here saying "make new stuff or I quit" but I do see people saying "fix these bugs or I quit" Whether they mean that or not is irrelevant. I can't tell you what % of the player base wants to see bugs fixed, id really be shocked if its less than 100%... honestly, who wouldn't want to see bugs fixed. And sure, id also be shocked if less than 100% doesn't want new content... again, who wouldn't. I don't see people screaming for new content, what I see is people wanting bugs to be fixed and the content that's already here to be finished before the next set of content is released. There is absolutely nothing unrealistic about that and it just makes sense for it to get done.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
# 105
12-12-2012, 09:23 PM
Half-finished content occurs in every game, but I agree, STO is probably the biggest jumble of half-working features I've ever seen in my life.

I mean, if we break down half-finished content into a ship-by-ship basis, look at my analysis on the Steamrunner..a $25.00 ship..

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=481751

There's no reason to release something that has this many problems with it's model/textures. And some of them, like no floodlights on the name/registry, which every ship has, are just glaring..
Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 5
# 106
12-13-2012, 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darimund View Post
I don't drink coffee, and I'm quite awake.



blizzard is/was also wildly successful, not to mention they also had a strong customer support policy. Cryptic isn't and does not.


You didnt play wow when it first came out did you, The bugs were rife and MOST of the major ones didnt get fixed untill the 3rd expansion, remember blizzerd has ALOT more man power and recources than cryptic.

Well lets see. Hrm a bug that effects 3/100 people or a bug that effects 100/100 people. Sorry but when I asked myself this question, my priority would be the bug that effects everyone. But here's the kicker, all of them should be addressed in a reasonable amount of time.

So you would fix a small grapical bug than a game crashing bug, this is why you will never be a developer


Here, once again, I asked myself this silly question and the answer I come up with is, so what if production is delayed by a few weeks. work it must, shine it may. No matter how much you try to polish a turd, it still stinks.


Again content that has a few minor bugs is better than no content, You can't get someone who works on story writing, game stability to work on graphic glitches when they have no experiance in that field, Would you take your car to a bakery to get fixed or a garage.


I don't see anyone here saying "make new stuff or I quit" but I do see people saying "fix these bugs or I quit" Whether they mean that or not is irrelevant. I can't tell you what % of the player base wants to see bugs fixed, id really be shocked if its less than 100%... honestly, who wouldn't want to see bugs fixed. And sure, id also be shocked if less than 100% doesn't want new content... again, who wouldn't. I don't see people screaming for new content, what I see is people wanting bugs to be fixed and the content that's already here to be finished before the next set of content is released. There is absolutely nothing unrealistic about that and it just makes sense for it to get done.

No people wont say it, they will just leave, It happend in wow, it happend when sto first came out. When this game first came out there was easily double the people playing it, maybe more. After 2-3 months alot left due to NOTHING TO DO.

small graphical bugs and harmless bugs may well be annoying, but if it isnt game changing there low prio.

I can name LOADS of games that get sold with massive game breaking bugs and they never get fixed.


This is an MMO, its constantly evolving, always changing, NO game company and I mean NONE has ever released a MMO that didnt have bugs, Heck wow STILL has a bug from alpha where you can get under stormwind, If your found there you get banned/warning,


I bet any money you would whine like a little girl if you had a bug that caused your game to crash, but instead of fixing it they just fixed graphical glitches instead.


And to be fair, apart from the odd graphical glitch (Witch I belive is more of a lighting issue anyways) I have encounterd no bugs that effect gameplay in any way.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 14
# 107
12-13-2012, 03:26 AM
I'm tending to agree with the topic creator here... Although I will wager that many of the bugs we complain about that convey this feeling of unfinished-ness are in many cases minor compared to things that were caught and fixed.

Some bugs are like hammer dents in the wall; they detract from the quality of the wall, but ultimately you can live with them, if you aren't too OCD about it anyway.

But a few of these bugs bear a striking resemblance to sledge-hammer shaped holes in the wall; and the contractor seems disinterested in fixing (if even acknowledging) them. There's just no way to walk by that damn wall without sighing and wondering if he'll ever show up to do something about it.

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of sections of drywall with no flaws, but some of these holes are right next to light switches, I'm interacting with the thing right next to them all the time!

I might be stretching the metaphor a little - At least with the wall, in most cases you can do something about it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 129
# 108
12-13-2012, 04:08 AM
dariusmajere is right about a lot of things but about one thing he is completely wrong : KDF was supposed to be a complete alternative to FED - including levels 1-20 - they just couldn't get it done before the game was released . The fact they didn't do so afterwards is less excusable than is suggested here.

I distinctly remember it being advertised with both factions ( to have "two completely different experiences with your captain " ) .
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 294
# 109
12-13-2012, 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elexier909pw View Post
No people wont say it, they will just leave, It happend in wow, it happend when sto first came out. When this game first came out there was easily double the people playing it, maybe more. After 2-3 months alot left due to NOTHING TO DO.

small graphical bugs and harmless bugs may well be annoying, but if it isnt game changing there low prio.

I can name LOADS of games that get sold with massive game breaking bugs and they never get fixed.


This is an MMO, its constantly evolving, always changing, NO game company and I mean NONE has ever released a MMO that didnt have bugs, Heck wow STILL has a bug from alpha where you can get under stormwind, If your found there you get banned/warning,


I bet any money you would whine like a little girl if you had a bug that caused your game to crash, but instead of fixing it they just fixed graphical glitches instead.


And to be fair, apart from the odd graphical glitch (Witch I belive is more of a lighting issue anyways) I have encounterd no bugs that effect gameplay in any way.
ive said this multiple times, so to save you the trouble of actually reading the thread, which you obviously haven't, I'm not expecting perfection. I know there will be bugs, I'm not debating that. But lets list the bugs off the top of my head that do affect gameplay since you are, i'm guessing, new here and prolly haven't made it past lvl 30 on your first toon.

ESTFS - Borg are one shotting people with invisible plasma torpedoes. not high yield, not critical hits, but one massive 50k+ hit that that will kill you with full shield and hull hp.

Omega reputation t4 - Mk XII prosthetic arm store is empty

Romulan reputation t4 - Hyper Plasma Torpedo isn't there as advertised, its instead a placeholder rapid fire torpedo not part of the set.

Romulan Embassy consoles - duplicates of the -threat and + threat consoles, no disparity in them, IE all of the plasma infuser graviton consoles are -threat and duplicated in the store

Romulan Embassy plasma infuser consoles - plasma burn proc is not being properly added to some weapons.

Romulan Embassy Boffs - racial traits aren't working at all.

Omega Impulse Engine - cool down reduction isn't working for slipstream travel

UI Chat interface - half the time, it doesn't recognize im in a fleet so I can't select 'fleet' as a default chat channel, I'm having to type in /fleet every time I want to say something.

these are just some of the bugs I've encountered since s7 launched. These aren't graphical glitches, these are game play affecting bugs. Wanna try again?

Last edited by darimund; 12-13-2012 at 05:59 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 92
# 110
12-13-2012, 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dariusmajere View Post
Not sure how many mmo's you have been in, but for going on its 3rd year for a game that got dropped on there lap and being converted onto there engine slowly, they are not doing bad. Hell look at games with much larger studios and financial back where they are.. TOR barely could hold subs due to its issues they didnt even make a year before plunging F2P with one of the worst micro markets i have ever seen.

Better yet..have you seen Diablo 3 put out by mega developer BLIZZARD and all its issues and it literallyhas parts that did not make it to release yet. Heavy nerfing done to items in games and the destruction of what made Diablio 2 last so long with the now big push to aid casuals and blow off the elitist niche market the game series had.

STO for its age is doing pretty good. Not the best, but still above the grade. Most games do not start becoming strong until the 5th year. Hell eve online is on its 18th expansion since 2003 and only the last few expansions has it been fixing issues from 2003 to now.
Acutally hoss, there are quite a few issues with this game that could be deemed excessive. Ive encountered bugs that have been around for a long time...bugs like the Red Alert bug, a bug that for me is game breaking...still not fixed.

These devs remind me of the inexperienced devs over at TOR. A game i played for just 6 months before realizing what a garbage pile it was. I am beginning to feel that way here with STO, just 2 months and 5 level 50's later.

I hope one day, this game will be polished, but more than likely, it will not. If your having fun playing and enjoy the game, then by all means, enjoy. However, it may soon lose another paying customer/zen purchaser
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