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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,916
# 11
12-13-2012, 03:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luxchristian View Post
[...]
It is just that only a rather small percentage of a MMO's playerbase is interested in PvP. With a small playerbase it gets rather hard to have a lot of people in the queues.
True. Once again, I must say that a 1v1 queue with some time-limited objective, or reducing team size in general (to 3, for example) would help PvP. The experience would be less random, and the waiting times would be shorter.

Quote:
The problem is that we have a self fullfilling prophecy here. Without proper rewards, advertisement, new content, bug eliminating PvP will decline. With declining usage of PvP content Cryptic can't justify spending money on it ...
I think there is a middle way: It is not "all or nothing". Doing a few little things, like fixing Ker'rat (or only parts of it), adding a new PvP game mode or two every season should not require too much work. It doesn't have to be much to keep PvPers hooked.

Last edited by sophlogimo; 12-13-2012 at 03:51 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 12
12-13-2012, 03:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
True. Once again, I must say that a 1v1 queue with some time-limited objective, or reducing team size in general (to 3, for example) would help PvP. The experience would be less random, and the waiting times would be shorter.
Yep, the long waiting times for space PVP with my Klingon are turning me off from casual PVP. And the OPVP 10vs10 matches are always when I doing something else xD


Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
I think there is a middle way: It is not "all or nothing". Doing a few little things, like fixing Ker'rat (or only parts of it), adding a new PvP game mode or two every season should require too much work. It doesn't have to be much to keep PvPers hooked.
But new content means news posts on the main page. Which would always generate a spike in new players.
You are right that something new every season is more useful than have a big update once every 2 years xD

I still think that the "101 How to PVP" on the main page every month would get a big increase in the PVP queues. Thats a lot of advertisement for a low cost.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 220
# 13
12-13-2012, 06:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
It's a curious thing, imo, how normally I would suggest that the PvP itself is reward enough for and from the PvP...
My thought.


On the one hand it would help to get more rewards for PvP (more Dilithium, any kind of marks), on the other hand as more rewards you get for it, the more Leechers you will have on PvP maps again. I have the feeling that since Season 7 there are less leechers around on PvP Maps.

And the problem concerning the number of players on Space PvP is nothing compared to the numbers on Ground PvP. If you take a UTC+0 Point of View, there are only enough players at the evening hours. The other 18hrs of the day, there is not one single match starting.

What is definietly needed, are more maps and the removal of this invisible cubes embracing the buildings at Shanty Town. For weeks now, you are always running into invisible walls. These invisible cubes are about a meter more expanding than the building itself.

Last edited by zeratk; 12-13-2012 at 06:19 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 14
12-13-2012, 06:34 AM
If you add good rewards, people will queue up. It's really that simple. The "PvP itself is reward enough" only works if your comfortable having a really small PvP player base.

On the other hand, balancing a f2p game with a pay to win cash shop for PvP while not massively pissing lots of people off is almost completely impossible.

So if they do develop PvP more, you should probably never expect it to be even marginally close to a well balanced affair. I think some folks need to come to terms with that.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 15
12-13-2012, 06:37 AM
Quote:
I still think that the "101 How to PVP" on the main page every month would get a big increase in the PVP queues. Thats a lot of advertisement for a low cost.
It won't do anything to the queues.

Face it - you need to PvE a LOT, or even more just to be able to copete in endgame PvP. No new player will stay in PvP in the current state of the game cause they will NOT be able to compete with old(er) players. Not because of lack of skill and experience. Because lack of equipement, crew (DOFFs), passives, P2W stuff. End of story.

After s7 they could really delete PvP. Won't make huge difference for new players if PvP is here or not. It's pretty much unplayable from their perspective. If PvP stays it's only because either:
a) it will cost more to kill it then to leave it alone,
b) those old PvPers are spending more money on P2W and ships/lockboxes then PWE can save by killing PvP.

Harsh? Yeah, but I think how it is now. So I would not count on PvP getting any attention or getting any better. For this to happen they would need to turn the game upside down to the point of creating game mechanics from scratch. I doubt anything less can be made to the game without upsetting the PvE players which are, currently, the main revenoue source.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,916
# 16
12-13-2012, 06:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarathos1978 View Post
It won't do anything to the queues.

Face it - you need to PvE a LOT, or even more just to be able to copete in endgame PvP. No new player will stay in PvP in the current state of the game cause they will NOT be able to compete with old(er) players.
Well, one does not have to like it, but that's basically just the same thing as a level divide. A new player at level 1 won't be able to compete with a new player at level 50, either.

The problem here is not that this stuff exists, but that there is no proper matching of skills, reputation tier, and equipment in the queues.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 17
12-13-2012, 06:46 AM
Not quite, I think. Serious PvP (or any PvP currently) starts and lvl 50. At this point all players should have easy access to same equipment. But the difference between old lvl 50 old player and new one is so big, that for someone who is not investing a lot of time (as in tripple amount - 2xPvE + PvP) into game it will be uncrossable.

They will never be able to compete because of new content/abilities that will be added in the future and the skill difference. And PvE time needed to gain newer and newer skills. More PvE = less PvP and this equals less time to learn how to play. Which also means that those newbs will be unable to compete with old players. Ever. Either no time to catch with equipment/abilities or with skill.

Me being example I thought I will roll a new toon and play a little. But as soon as I glimpsed the new changes to the skill/passives/sets, and compared the time needed to be competitive in PvP with what I'm willing to spent in game it was like: the best leveling option is /uninstall. And I'm pretty "old" PvP player, at least when it comes to experience (not necessarily skill) so less time to cross the gap.

And the rewards - if you are a casuall player spending few hours weekly in game and you need to compete with more experienced players with better stuff that you will be able to get in some reasonable time then why bother? Can get the same with less time in PvE and in more friendly environment (AI is the same to everyone).

Last edited by zarathos1978; 12-13-2012 at 06:56 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 220
# 18
12-13-2012, 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarathos1978 View Post
Not quite, I think. Serious PvP (or any PvP currently) starts and lvl 50. At this point all players should have easy access to same equipment. But the difference between old lvl 50 old player and new one is so big, that for someone who is not investing a lot of time (as in tripple amount - 2xPvE + PvP) into game it will be uncrossable.

They will never be able to compete because of new content/abilities that will be added in the future and the skill difference. And PvE time needed to gain newer and newer skills. More PvE = less PvP and this equals less time to learn how to play. Which also means that those newbs will be unable to compete with old players. Ever. Either no time to catch with equipment/abilities or with skill.

Me being example I thought I will roll a new toon and play a little. But as soon as I glimpsed the new changes to the skill/passives/sets, and compared the time needed to be competitive in PvP with what I'm willing to spent in game it was like: the best leveling option is /uninstall. And I'm pretty "old" PvP player, at least when it comes to experience (not necessarily skill) so less time to cross the gap.

And the rewards - if you are a casuall player spending few hours weekly in game and you need to compete with more experienced players with better stuff that you will be able to get in some reasonable time then why bother? Can get the same with less time in PvE and in more friendly environment (AI is the same to everyone).
Exactly! And the AI does not talk trash on the chat!




Even now it takes a lot of time to keep all toons up to date, with this farming for Rep-System. The PvE is so much time consuming, often there is not even enough time to play PvP.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,068
# 19
12-13-2012, 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeratk View Post
On the one hand it would help to get more rewards for PvP (more Dilithium, any kind of marks), on the other hand as more rewards you get for it, the more Leechers you will have on PvP maps again.
Yep, I've never been a fan of the shiny sticker for participation that turns PvP into AFKfests or losing premades or... yeah, never been a fan of that. It's a dangerous route to offer rewards in PvP - because the "efficiency" crowd will find a way to ruin it.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 76
Been around since the begining. Once upon a time all I did was pvp but swapped builds around to better handle the pve content/grind and did not want to take my tricobalt cheese into pvp. The content that has been added to this game in the last 18 months, i.e. doffs, reputation, starbase is all great content and really fleshes out the game. I imagine how great this game would have gone over had this content been in place when the game launched. However, adding more of this kind of grindy content at this point just increases the disparity between players. Newbies will have a difficult time competing with vets who have grinded all the repuation and gear. The solution is for Cryptic to go idle on the point and click, managerial UI s they have been developing and spend some time devloping pvp or at least game play in general and not more point and click grind. There are a thousand good ideas to improve pvp and game play in general all over this board so I will spare you what I think they should do. Two things that should be done: 1. Disable all the pay-2-win consoles in pvp so you guys can get back to some kind of balanced pvp. Not the ships just all the consoles, there is enough variance without all the consoles. 2. Reward people for doing pvp.

Cryptic you should know that I am trying to help you. I am not whining or complaining or ******** . I want this game to do well and be fun, I think it is going the other way.
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