Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 128
# 11
12-13-2012, 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainrevo1 View Post
LOL, the log in bonus. you mean the foundry exploit. thats fun is it. clickling 3 consoles and getting a bonus. how far games have fallen if that is what it has come to.

man alive, if you cant earn dilithium by playing the game as it is currently, then nothing will be enough. they are throwing it as us at the moment.

actually play the game once in a while, or just move on.
It must suck to walk around not knowing what the word "exploit" means...

Encouraging people to quit playing the game is probably not best for the long term health of the game.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,887
# 12
12-13-2012, 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by recksracer View Post
It must suck to walk around not knowing what the word "exploit" means...

Encouraging people to quit playing the game is probably not best for the long term health of the game.
Your right, the people who log on, click 3 consoles, get their dilithium and log off was doing wonders. how will the game survive without them?

House of Cards - Lvl 46 Fed mission
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 73
# 13
12-13-2012, 12:40 PM
Again, Id enjoy playing the game if it was fairly rewarded. But fleet marks are hard to come by and dilithium also.

Give 50 fleet marks for stranded in space and then talk to me about playing the game. Give 1440 dilithium for doing the vault and then talk to me about playing the game.

There are 83 story missions in this game and how many of them pay fleet marks or dilithium. Oh yeah .... none. Sometimes you can get small dilithium containers during rerun weeks but thats negligable and Im not sure thats there anymore.

You only get dilithium and fleet marks from a few missions and people get tired and bored of them quickly. And people with multiple toons get extra bored when they have to earn gobs of dilithium for every toon doing the same old boring missions over and over and over.

When you have "played" the game over 20 times with each mission and you still cant buy what you want then you have a right to complain. I bet you cant name a Cryptic designed mission that Ive played less than 100 times. You bet, Id like to have a log in bonus so I dont have to play each one 900 times more for 9 more alts.

And fleets are especially problematic because 99% of them have ground to halts on their projects and the other 1% are massively slowed. There isnt a fleet that has made it past tier 3 without at least one person buying massive amounts of zen or everyone availing themselves of the log in bonus.

Putting a carrot too far ahead of the cart is not fun for the mules. And we want to have fun and be respected as players and not beat like mules.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,346
# 14
12-13-2012, 12:43 PM
For my part, I was pleasantly surprised to see the change to the Investigate Officer Reports mission for the Foundry.

A LOT of people begged for better rewards for good Foundry missions, to encourage both making and playing Foundry missions, and this proves that Cryptic was listening.

We went from 3 missions required down to 1 ... drastically improving the rewards for playing Foundry missions that were more than just click-n-win.

We went from a Daily to a mission with a 30 minute cooldown.

980 Dilithium is not a bad reward for 15-30 minutes of play time. Sure some missions are worth more than that, but this allows players to play the content they want to play.

We kept the 50 fleet marks.

So what I'm basically reading is that you want the clickie missions back.

Which is not going to happen. It's not good for STO, and this change is good for STO.

I'm going to applaud Cryptic for this one.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 73
# 15
12-13-2012, 12:47 PM
The game survives because of Zen. And if less people play then less people will buy zen. If the ones that do play - then play less - because they are bored - they also will buy less zen. And if people discover that when they buy zen that they get less value for their money - they might start buying less zen.

How will the game survive indeed if you have less players, people playing less, and people buying less.

Games do close and I can name you dozens that have.....

DStahl could go back and try to work for city of heroes again or something ......

Oh wait ...

Lets see who designed COH....

That would be Cryptic....

Who said COH had a free to play model worth of emulation ....

That would be Cryptic.....

Who said COH was on the right track by making players grind more and giving them less...

That would be Cryptic.....

Who said COH had the best Microtransaction store in MMO's

That would be Cryptic......

Its well and good to have City of Heroes as your role model .....

Except .....

Oh yeah - It failed

Survival is an issue when a games not fun
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 73
# 16
12-13-2012, 01:05 PM
Not sure a moderator would ever be anything but a fan boy. But hey I will bite.

There are 2 reasons to play a mission.

One its a fun mission.

Two it offers a good reward.

Offering better rewards does not change the fun of the foundry missions. They dont magically become better or worse. They are the same. If people thought they were fun then they would play them a lot. However, thats not the case. Dont get me wrong there are some great missions. There are some stinkaroos.

Generally many people view the foundry missions as Cryptics lazy way to create content without spending money to do it. Cryptics 83 story missions are dwarfed by the foundry missions and lets face it 50 or so of those missions were built before the game started. I doubt 33 of the story missions have been developed in the 3 years the game has been open. Less than 1 a month is pretty lame.

So we get down to how much should a foundry mission be rewarded. I posted before the foundry ever opened that people wouldnt play them much unless they were rewarded for doing so. Finally Cryptic is allowing for rewards but only if the time gates exceed 30 minutes or more. People with 10 characters arent going to spend 300 minutes a day doing foundry missions. Most arent going to be spending 60.

You cannot take other peoples time for granted. And you cannot dictate fun. You are still gating peoples time and you are dictating fun and neither of these things is going to go over so well over long time frame. You are going to get people grading great missions a 1 because it took 35 minutes to do a foundry mission and they wanted to spend a bare minimum of 30.

Im all for increasing the rewards for foundry. This is a good thing. Kudos for Cryptic for doing it. But its not enough and it doesnt come close to replacing what was lost and its not going to be a magic wand getting fleet projects moving forward again.

Players are going to want to ice skate to get free ships, and play ise 1000 times for the fastest way to get dilithium and omega marks. They are not going to play foundry until they believe that its the fastest and easiest way to get rewards in the game. And it is not.

And people want to be rewarded and have fun. They have jobs where they live for the grind. Its easier to work a job for an hour, make $10, and buy zen and convert it to dilithium than it is to work an hour and get dilithium in game. Except a jobs not always fun and many dont want to trade one form of drudgery to avoid another.

When STO becomes non stop drudgery it will die. If someone enjoys doing starbase blockade 1000 times then more power to them. Hey note me, I have room in a fleet for you and we can use the marks. Many think its drudgery after the first 20 times or so.

The only new content STO has to offer that hasnt been done 50 times by every player in the game is foundry and thats sad. And they are pushing people hard to do it because they know they dont have much else to offer.

The log in bonus let people enjoy the game without drudgery and frankly I think its needed.

And frankly, Im sick of people complaining about players with 10 alts or more that used it. By the time they levelled up 10 alts and equipped them and bought ships for them and outfitted them, and costumed them .... those guys arent lazy.

They are just tired of doing the same drudgery over and over again. Calling them lazy and telling them you need to gate their time and force them to grind more just is pure disrespect and you have your most dedicated players wondering why they play this game.

Frankly, its a mistake
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,877
# 17
12-13-2012, 01:09 PM
If I may ask, precisely what part of the game do you not get to enjoy without dilithium?

You can play:
STFs
PvP
Story Missions
Foundry (playing, obviously silver players need dil to get started authoring)
Featured Episodes
New Romulus
Nukara
Defera
Red Alerts
Doff System
Tau Dewa alerts
Fleet Actions and other PVE queue events

All these cost you no dilithium to play unless you want to spend it on gear or something.

So you don't get to tier 5 starbase. That doesn't stop you playing any of the above, enjoying is up to you.
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
Forum Logic dictates that if the devs don't do what a poster wants, they therefor actively hate what that poster is advocating for.
Forum Logic =/= Real Logic
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 596
# 18
12-13-2012, 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainrevo1 View Post
LOL, the log in bonus. you mean the foundry exploit. thats fun is it. clickling 3 consoles and getting a bonus. how far games have fallen if that is what it has come to.

man alive, if you cant earn dilithium by playing the game as it is currently, then nothing will be enough. they are throwing it as us at the moment.

actually play the game once in a while, or just move on.
Exploits get hotfixed. It was not an exploit. The devs knew about it and even buffed that mission to get starbases kickstarted. Just because it got your panties in a wad doesn't make it an exploit. You should look up the definition of a game exploit so you're not being shown a fool the next time you spout that lame talking point.

The log in bonus made small and medium fleets semi-competitive.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,795
# 19
12-13-2012, 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugshu View Post
Not sure a moderator would ever be anything but a fan boy. But hey I will bite.

There are 2 reasons to play a mission.

One its a fun mission.

Two it offers a good reward.

Offering better rewards does not change the fun of the foundry missions. They dont magically become better or worse. They are the same. If people thought they were fun then they would play them a lot. However, thats not the case. Dont get me wrong there are some great missions. There are some stinkaroos.

Generally many people view the foundry missions as Cryptics lazy way to create content without spending money to do it. Cryptics 83 story missions are dwarfed by the foundry missions and lets face it 50 or so of those missions were built before the game started. I doubt 33 of the story missions have been developed in the 3 years the game has been open. Less than 1 a month is pretty lame.

So we get down to how much should a foundry mission be rewarded. I posted before the foundry ever opened that people wouldnt play them much unless they were rewarded for doing so. Finally Cryptic is allowing for rewards but only if the time gates exceed 30 minutes or more. People with 10 characters arent going to spend 300 minutes a day doing foundry missions. Most arent going to be spending 60.

You cannot take other peoples time for granted. And you cannot dictate fun. You are still gating peoples time and you are dictating fun and neither of these things is going to go over so well over long time frame. You are going to get people grading great missions a 1 because it took 35 minutes to do a foundry mission and they wanted to spend a bare minimum of 30.

Im all for increasing the rewards for foundry. This is a good thing. Kudos for Cryptic for doing it. But its not enough and it doesnt come close to replacing what was lost and its not going to be a magic wand getting fleet projects moving forward again.

Players are going to want to ice skate to get free ships, and play ise 1000 times for the fastest way to get dilithium and omega marks. They are not going to play foundry until they believe that its the fastest and easiest way to get rewards in the game. And it is not.

And people want to be rewarded and have fun. They have jobs where they live for the grind. Its easier to work a job for an hour, make $10, and buy zen and convert it to dilithium than it is to work an hour and get dilithium in game. Except a jobs not always fun and many dont want to trade one form of drudgery to avoid another.

When STO becomes non stop drudgery it will die. If someone enjoys doing starbase blockade 1000 times then more power to them. Hey note me, I have room in a fleet for you and we can use the marks. Many think its drudgery after the first 20 times or so.

The only new content STO has to offer that hasnt been done 50 times by every player in the game is foundry and thats sad. And they are pushing people hard to do it because they know they dont have much else to offer.

The log in bonus let people enjoy the game without drudgery and frankly I think its needed.

And frankly, Im sick of people complaining about players with 10 alts or more that used it. By the time they levelled up 10 alts and equipped them and bought ships for them and outfitted them, and costumed them .... those guys arent lazy.

They are just tired of doing the same drudgery over and over again. Calling them lazy and telling them you need to gate their time and force them to grind more just is pure disrespect and you have your most dedicated players wondering why they play this game.

Frankly, its a mistake
bugshu, the log-in bonus is not needed, quite simply. There's a difference between getting Dilithilum fairly and getting it TOO easily... and that method was just too easy, frankly. Anyone could do it, anyone could take advantage of it, and many did... I think that's the very definition of an exploit.

You have your opinion, and that's fine. But the rewards and fun aspect are not as bad as you claim, I think... if people really didn't like this game or how much rewards they get, they wouldn't be playing at all. But they do
Was named Trek17, but still an author.

Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh'.

Last edited by trek21; 12-13-2012 at 01:18 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 132
# 20
12-13-2012, 01:16 PM
Cryptic changed a system in STO and from my experience they rarely change it back due customers complaints. I highly doubt we will get the clickers back, that will hurt fleets, and people from buying stuff. A major percentage of those users that used the clickers really don't like the foundry missions. 15-30 min missions that take foooreevveer to load, boring as ell, and are horribly written, pass I'll do and STF or Fleet Action.

The clickers helped fleets a lot, most of the time as soon as I got my 1440 Dilithium I would turn around and just put that into a fleet project from 7 toons (was 15). Now I rarely sign onto my other toons. 7 toons x 1,440 = 10,080 Main and Alt Fleet were getting that much Dilithium per day from me now they get 0 +/-.

The harder it is to get Dilithium the less likely users will be willing to part with it. The more Dilithium a user has the more likely people will spend it. It is that simple.
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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