Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 642
# 21
12-13-2012, 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
So what I'm basically reading is that you want the clickie missions back.
It kept the game economy healthy when the Season 6 hit with heavy resource sinks. The double whammy of removing it and the grind/sink increases have it on life support.

A failing game economy is not something to applaud.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 42
# 22
12-13-2012, 02:22 PM
Fleets were not meant to be a small/medium thing. Unless you had a huge fleet, they never designed the system to be easy or quick to reach the higher tiers. In fact, even the basic T0 is built around at LEAST 25 people doing it I believe.

Ideally a high level Starbase is meant to be built up by 100's of players. It's not really Cryptic's fault that people don't want to do that.

Sure, I'd like to earn Fleet Marks easier/faster, but am I upset? Not really, it was a design choice.
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,687
# 23
12-13-2012, 02:39 PM
Personally, I don't think bringing back clickies is the best answer.

They have the exact opposite effect of what PWE wants, which is to keep people playing over time.

The real answer is to balance rewards across ALL types of content, so people can have fun playing whatever aspect of the game they like to play and to get people to try stuff they haven't played through before. STO has a long way to go in that regard, but it's the right path.

I don't think anyone can honestly tell me that doing a clickie was fun. It's not fun. It's a chore. But we did it because we were disproportionately rewarded for it.

That's simply not good for the game. It's negative conditioning that's actually contrary to the behavior they ought to encourage. My name is not Pavlov and I am not a dog (though I have been known to drool occasionally); I shouldn't feel like ringing a bell or clicking a button is a worthwhile activity.

If you aren't getting enough rewards from playing the stuff you actually like to play, then that's where the problem lies and that's what needs to be fixed.

And yes, I am a fan of STO. Would it make sense for me to be a volunteer mod if I weren't? But anybody who knows me also knows I'm not afraid to criticize Cryptic and PWE if I think they deserve it. So far nobody's told me what to say... and if they did, I'd quit.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 24
12-13-2012, 02:44 PM
My main gripe is the separation of systems and rewards.

If I wanted to get fleet marks I have to generally do missions that do not give dilithium, or I have to do the random Fleet Events thing which is easily the least appealing option because I simply can't stand several of the fleet events because they are not well designed and are complete mindless zerg fests.

I've currently given up on dilithium, I do not have time as I'm constantly trying to grind out Romulan marks for several toons as well as expertise for a few newly minted 50s that don't have 5 million+ expertise like my main.



I think that a major improvement would be the following:


All Missions that grant Mark rewards should also grant an amount of dilithium. (STFs already do this)

All missions that grant a mark reward should also grant an appropriate amount of Skill/expertise as part of the final reward.

Romulan & Omega rep systems should have an prject that allows for the conversion of each respective type of mark into fleet marks at a loss.

I.e.

1) Romulan Project allows for changing 50 RMs to 35 FMs. (loss of 30%)

2) Omega Project allows for changing 50 RMs to 35 FMs. (loss of 30%)

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 25
12-13-2012, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yggdrayuril View Post
Fleets were not meant to be a small/medium thing. .
Then they should not allow small/medium fleets to build bases.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 26
12-13-2012, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
The real answer is to balance rewards across ALL types of content, so people can have fun playing whatever aspect of the game they like to play and to get people to try stuff they haven't played through before. STO has a long way to go in that regard, but it's the right path.

Agreed.


I also think they should give a 25% bonus of dilithium awarded to subs/LTS players - this does not allow them to go over the 8K refining cap - but just means less missions need to be completed to hit that cap.

Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 42
# 27
12-13-2012, 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanover2 View Post
Then they should not allow small/medium fleets to build bases.
I don't see how that solves anything. Just because it's impractical for small/medium fleets to build bases does not mean it's impossible. It's just far more time-consuming and impractical.

Also, on the topic of clickes, they weren't "fun" no, but they were quick and easy. And didn't require any real effort to do to get something that's pretty time-consuming. Also, only time I've ever seen the "Sexy" dance emote...
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,963
# 28
12-14-2012, 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomictiki View Post
Exploits get hotfixed. It was not an exploit. The devs knew about it and even buffed that mission to get starbases kickstarted. Just because it got your panties in a wad doesn't make it an exploit. You should look up the definition of a game exploit so you're not being shown a fool the next time you spout that lame talking point.

The log in bonus made small and medium fleets semi-competitive.
I find your rude little rant quite amusing. you insult me over using the word exploit and yet you call it a log in bonus. its not a log in bonus. if it was, cryptic would call it such, everyone would get it for logging in, you would not have to do a foundry daily and rely on player created mission to get it and cryptic would not have removed it. its not a log in bonus as much as you want to think it is.

the foundry was designed for player created stories. it was not designed for grind missions or once touch clickies. that was what they said a long time ago. players are using a loophole and exploiting the system to benefit themselves in a way that was never intended by its initial design.

a player with 20 or 30 alts, could log in and out over the space of 5 or 10 minutes and accumulate 20, 30, maybe 40k of dilithium in no time at all. if that is not exploiting the original intent then i dont know what is.

maybe cryptic tolerated it, or turned a blind eye to it if they did not find it too much of an issue at first, but it clearly was an issue as they changed it. their speed at updating the foundry has never been quick but its gone now. their tolerance and speed of fixing does not make it any less of an exploit.

as an example, do you consider people who AFK events getting log in bonuses? people who AFK are exploiting events and missions to their benefit and the detriment of the team yet no one has ever fixed it, yet its exploiting something to their own benefit. it may not be a codding exploit, or a bug exploit but its still a exploit.

House of Cards - Lvl 46 Fed mission
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 29
12-14-2012, 02:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
If I may ask, precisely what part of the game do you not get to enjoy without dilithium?

You can play:
STFs
PvP
Story Missions
Foundry (playing, obviously silver players need dil to get started authoring)
Featured Episodes
New Romulus
Nukara
Defera
Red Alerts
Doff System
Tau Dewa alerts
Fleet Actions and other PVE queue events

All these cost you no dilithium to play unless you want to spend it on gear or something.

So you don't get to tier 5 starbase. That doesn't stop you playing any of the above, enjoying is up to you.
It seems that a lot of players can only be happy if they have a T5 Starbase xD

Or they must really have a ****ty life that find a 3clickes mission essential to their happyness :-P
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 394
# 30
12-14-2012, 03:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugshu View Post
The game survives because of Zen. And if less people play then less people will buy zen. If the ones that do play - then play less - because they are bored - they also will buy less zen. And if people discover that when they buy zen that they get less value for their money - they might start buying less zen.

How will the game survive indeed if you have less players, people playing less, and people buying less.

Games do close and I can name you dozens that have.....

DStahl could go back and try to work for city of heroes again or something ......

Oh wait ...

Lets see who designed COH....

That would be Cryptic....

Who said COH had a free to play model worth of emulation ....

That would be Cryptic.....

Who said COH was on the right track by making players grind more and giving them less...

That would be Cryptic.....

Who said COH had the best Microtransaction store in MMO's

That would be Cryptic......

Its well and good to have City of Heroes as your role model .....

Except .....

Oh yeah - It failed

Survival is an issue when a games not fun
Actually, I feel I should correct you here.

CoH did not fail. For some inexplicable reason, it's new masters decided that enough was enough, got rid of the devs, and closed the game. It was still profitable and it was still pretty popular.

On topic: I think the OP is just whining for whining's sake. The changes to Officer Reports is brilliant, especially if you find some decent Foundry missions that don't take too long. Get a full group together, and that's half an hour of fun with your fleet mates, and 250 marks. Repeatable every half hour. What's not to like about that?
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