Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 73
# 211
12-13-2012, 02:06 PM
Im sick of the Cryptic fan boys saying we want instant gratification. Theres not a fleet in the game that I know of thats at tier 5. Even when you had the log in bonus and could get a reasonable price for the zen you bought it didnt give you "instant" gratification. It just let you get within site of the goal.

And hes right grind is not content....

And you know what ... Every game in America is trying to get away from grind except this one. Most games are desperately falling all overthemselves to build sandbox game play where players can choose their own destiny and do what they feel is fun.

Time gate / grind is old school and I dont think it will be around much longer.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 42
# 212
12-13-2012, 02:09 PM
Grind is oldschool? How? All MMOs have grind, they exist because of it. If they didn't, players would run out of things to do and get bored and leave. They have to have grinding to make people keep re-doing stuff to keep them around.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 213
12-13-2012, 02:11 PM
THAT is a weaksauce excuse. "We're no worse than anyone else."
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,201
# 214
12-13-2012, 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanover2 View Post
*sigh*

Nobody is asking for instant gratification, and grind is not content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugshu View Post
Im sick of the Cryptic fan boys saying we want instant gratification. Theres not a fleet in the game that I know of thats at tier 5. Even when you had the log in bonus and could get a reasonable price for the zen you bought it didnt give you "instant" gratification. It just let you get within site of the goal.

And hes right grind is not content....

And you know what ... Every game in America is trying to get away from grind except this one. Most games are desperately falling all overthemselves to build sandbox game play where players can choose their own destiny and do what they feel is fun.

Time gate / grind is old school and I dont think it will be around much longer.

No, grind is not content -- but it is a deliberate time sink. Both grind and actual game content exist to consume your time. To get around both, all you have to do is stop playing STO and find other productive pass times
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 42
# 215
12-13-2012, 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanover2 View Post
THAT is a weaksauce excuse. "We're no worse than anyone else."
You try to make an MMO without grind. See how long you keep players when people blaze through the game and run out of things to do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,442
# 216
12-13-2012, 02:26 PM
I can tell you my fleet's development did not slow as a result of the removal of the "login bonus" as you refer to it. Its development was hit with stupidly rare food items/doffs that were hard to get and expensive to buy. That got changed as a result of threads like this, which I thought was reasonable.

OK, you don't want grind, what you call grind I call "Replay Value" You also don't want "instant gratification" sounds to me like you only want to play the game for 5 minutes a day and get all the bells and whistles that people who play for an hour or two get through (re)playing the game.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,442
# 217
12-13-2012, 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yggdrayuril View Post
You try to make an MMO without grind. See how long you keep players when people blaze through the game and run out of things to do.
Seconded, make any game without grind and see how long people play it before it ends up in computer exchange.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,201
# 218
12-13-2012, 02:29 PM
Based on the quality of replies being posted here, it is pretty difficult to refute that:


"As Grind Length approaches zero, Instant Gratification approaches reality."



The hard part is finding a happy medium that satisfies all parties.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 219
12-13-2012, 02:30 PM
You're missing the point. There is no reason to make us repeat a small hand full of missions when they have so much existing content already built. Why doesn't every "episode" mission give 5-10 fleet marks and maybe 100 dilithium, for example? My beef is not only is there an excessive amount of grind necessary, but they insist on making us grind only certain things, which makes the repetetive feeling even worse.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 42
# 220
12-13-2012, 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tc10b View Post
Seconded, make any game without grind and see how long people play it before it ends up in computer exchange.
Well you can make a single-player game without grind just fine, for these the profit is in the game purchase.

However MMOs have a constant upkeep and cost to the dev. They need to pay for servers and are constantly paying the wages for all the workers to keep the game running, and keep developing it. They don't make that much from the actual gamesale to make this work, they need to make money from the game in some form.

A game that has no incentive to keep playing will just hemmorage money. A single-player/offline game that costs $50 might net you 10-20 hours of gameplay, but they don't care - they made their money when you bought it. An MMO needs you to keep paying for it, or it'll shut down. They have to keep players around for hundreds, or thousands of hours.
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