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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,118
# 41
12-13-2012, 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
As redricky said, if you want to optimize your torps - it's going to be a case of avoiding autofire. This was the case even before the Omega Torp. Even with 3 Green PWO-T's, if you had 4 torps - that 4th one would be unlikely to fire. If you tried to squeeze in a Tric, Cluster, Harp - it might never fire - regardless of where you slotted it. With better PWO-T's, you could find that even the 3rd wasn't firing on occasion - it just isn't efficient with autofire.

It would be nifty if the Left->Right thing offered precedence, so that it checked - but I'm not sure that's anything they're going to look at any time soon - since it can be resolved with a keybind and is not something completely broken.

It's kind of like how mapping fire torps to spacebar doesn't work as well as mapping fire phasers does - that's very annoying too, but again - there's a fix for it so it's not likely high up on their list of things to look at...
That isn't true at all. I've flown my B'rel torpedo boat for several months. All of my fore and aft torpedoes fire, with autofire, and am usually cloaked again in less than 6 seconds.

That may not be the case with the Omega and Romulan plasma torps, considering who it screws with the timing. But, with my current setup, everything fires as it is supposed to.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,080
# 42
12-13-2012, 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
That isn't true at all. I've flown my B'rel torpedo boat for several months. All of my fore and aft torpedoes fire, with autofire, and am usually cloaked again in less than 6 seconds.

That may not be the case with the Omega and Romulan plasma torps, considering who it screws with the timing. But, with my current setup, everything fires as it is supposed to.
Looking at a single volley of torps after decloaking is not the same as sustained firing using PWO-T's... We've been discussing it in several threads over in the PvP forums.

3x Green PWO and 4 regular Plasma Torps
More often than not, that 4th Plasma Torp will not fire. It may fire on the first volley, but after that - the PWO's will keep it from firing - unless the PWO's miss, and then you'll get it on a random volley here and there.
Go with better than Green, and even the 3rd may not fire.
3x Green PWO, 3 regular Plasma, and a Tric - the Tric may or may not fire on that first volley - it's very unlikely that it will fire after that if it did not on the first.
It's a reason that I went 2x (something), and then either the Harp or Breen + the Tric. I'd get the 1s Plasma's one after the other without the Tric firing unless I bound it.

With the 8s on a Plasma, the .5s (round to 1s) activation - and 3 Green PWOs - you have the following.

1 Plasma #1 (8s rec, dropped by 3s to 5s)
2 Plasma #2 (8s rec, dropped by 3s to 5s - the 4s on P#1 is dropped to 1s)
3 Plasma #3 (8s rec, dropped by 3s to 5s - P#1 is ready to fire again, P#2 is down to 1s)
4 Plasma #1 fires again...
5 Plasma #2 fires again...
6 Plasma #3 fires again...

Plasma #4 only fires if a PWO doesn't trigger. If you have something else there, it's unlikely to fire because P#1 is firing again.

If you had 3x Blue, you're dropping 4s. #3's unlikely to fire and forget about #4.

Dropping to 2x starts providing random results. 3x 20% works pretty smooth. 2x 20% - not so much.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,118
# 43
12-13-2012, 02:33 PM
My fleet mate made a B'rel Transphasic torpedo boat, and realized that he was never getting to his 3rd, let alone 4th, Transphasic torpedo.

He put int a different 3rd and 4th torpedo and was getting them all to fire.

I will need to confirm with him what he did to get it working.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,080
# 44
12-13-2012, 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
My fleet mate made a B'rel Transphasic torpedo boat, and realized that he was never getting to his 3rd, let alone 4th, Transphasic torpedo.

He put int a different 3rd and 4th torpedo and was getting them all to fire.

I will need to confirm with him what he did to get it working.
Rapid Trans? Depending on what PWO-T's he had...could definitely see that. I tended to run 3x Rapid+Cluster front, Rapid+Cluster+Mine (or 2x Rapid+Mine) rear - with no PWO-Ts.

Photon 6s
Quantum/Plasma/Rapid Trans 8s
Chron/Trans 10s
Hargh'peng 15s
Breen 45s
Tric 60s

White 2s
Green 3s
Blue 4s
Purp 5s

PWO-Ts are one of the few DOFFs where lower quality can actually work better than higher quality...meh. Cause when you get into some of the longer recharge torps, you're also running into the triggered CDs that PWO-T's do not affect. You can find yourself firing the first one again before the second, because you've reduced the recharge below the triggered CD...meh.

Now that, would be something that I really wish they would address. Same thing goes with mines - you get hit with that 12s triggered CD that the PWO-M's do not affect...meh.

Photon 15s
Plasma 16s
Chron/Quantum/Trans 20s
Tric 60s

So if you've been drinking (/ahem or otherwise*) and are trying to maximize the rate that drop Trics - you've got to keep in mind that 12s triggered CD on them...

*I had a moment where I wanted be a minedropper - it didn't work out well, lol.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
# 45
12-13-2012, 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
My fleet mate made a B'rel Transphasic torpedo boat, and realized that he was never getting to his 3rd, let alone 4th, Transphasic torpedo.

He put int a different 3rd and 4th torpedo and was getting them all to fire.

I will need to confirm with him what he did to get it working.
i had a similar effect with cannons. when equipped DHCs and DCs they seemed to ignore the order and fire together.

currently using rapid trans, mk xii trans and cluster with 3 blue doffs. all my torps fire, but i get seconds of idleness. any suggestions?
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 120
# 46
12-13-2012, 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post

3x Green PWO and 4 regular Plasma Torps
More often than not, that 4th Plasma Torp will not fire. It may fire on the first volley, but after that - the PWO's will keep it from firing - unless the PWO's miss, and then you'll get it on a random volley here and there.
Go with better than Green, and even the 3rd may not fire.
3x Green PWO, 3 regular Plasma, and a Tric - the Tric may or may not fire on that first volley - it's very unlikely that it will fire after that if it did not on the first.
It's a reason that I went 2x (something), and then either the Harp or Breen + the Tric. I'd get the 1s Plasma's one after the other without the Tric firing unless I bound it.

With the 8s on a Plasma, the .5s (round to 1s) activation - and 3 Green PWOs - you have the following.

1 Plasma #1 (8s rec, dropped by 3s to 5s)
2 Plasma #2 (8s rec, dropped by 3s to 5s - the 4s on P#1 is dropped to 1s)
3 Plasma #3 (8s rec, dropped by 3s to 5s - P#1 is ready to fire again, P#2 is down to 1s)
4 Plasma #1 fires again...
5 Plasma #2 fires again...
6 Plasma #3 fires again...

Plasma #4 only fires if a PWO doesn't trigger. If you have something else there, it's unlikely to fire because P#1 is firing again.

This isn't exactly how PWOs work... they each have a 20% chance to trigger (and yes more than one can trigger). I did the math in another thread awhile back, but it's something like 51% that none of the three trigger (80%^3), 38% that one of them trigger (3*80%*80%*20%) and 11% that 2 or more trigger. If you have all purples (or blues) then there is no difference between 2 and 3 triggering (for 8-sec cooldown torps like plasmas and quantums).

If you are using 8-sec cooldown torps (plasmas and quantums), then your increased fire per 8 seconds goes 1, 2, or 3 per 8 seconds (depending on if you are using 1, 2 or 3 torps ) to roughly 3.5, 5.2, or 7 torps per 8 seconds (this is the long-run expected value, there is some variance). This is why 2 or 3 torps are good for a torpboat, but 4 is bad (because the ROF will always be under 8 per 8 seconds).
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,118
# 47
12-13-2012, 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warstrider View Post
currently using rapid trans, mk xii trans and cluster with 3 blue doffs. all my torps fire, but i get seconds of idleness. any suggestions?
In a B'rel? Turn around and drop some aft torps before swinging around again to shoot from the fore.

It's what I do while I'm waiting for the Quantums to come off cooldown.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,080
# 48
12-13-2012, 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heresincebeta View Post
This isn't exactly how PWOs work... they each have a 20% chance to trigger (and yes more than one can trigger). I did the math in another thread awhile back, but it's something like 51% that none of the three trigger (80%^3), 38% that one of them trigger (3*80%*80%*20%) and 11% that 2 or more trigger. If you have all purples (or blues) then there is no difference between 2 and 3 triggering (for 8-sec cooldown torps like plasmas and quantums).
I've not noticed more than one triggering. I usually see a single reduction or no reduction - with 2 instead of 3, I've been more likely to see no reduction.

The standard math would be...

1 PWO:
1 of 1, 20%

2 PWO:
1 of 2, 32%
2 of 2, 4%
At least 1, 36%

3 PWO:
1 of 3, 38.4%
2 of 3, 9.6%
3 of 3, 0.8%
At least 1, 48.8%

If it's working that way, then I should have seen at least a few double reductions with three Greens, no?

Perhaps they were there, but just something I didn't notice...hrmmm. I'll have to do more testing on that, because that 48.8% vs. the 36% has always appeared as a chance for the 3s rather than a 3-9s vs 3-6s reduction. Yep, I'll have to do more testing.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,206
I am clearly out of my league in this discussion. Here's what I can tell you.

I have only one torpedo launcher on my Heavy Escort Carrier. I'm exclusively PVE. The build looks like this:

3x DHC Anti-proton, 1 OMEGA torp (formerly a Quantum Torp)
2 Anti-proton Turret rear, Borg Cutting Beam

Assim Module, both point defense systems (phaser and photon)
2x Rare Antiproton Mags, 1 rare ambi-plasma, 1 field generator

Advanced Scorpion Fighters

Before: Prior to the OMEGA, I could handle KASE probes, 1 side easily. With help I could take out the cube and be 50% done the gens on one side.

After: With OMEGA I can handle both sides probe duty easily, and take out a cube on my own. The ease in which it happened surprised me.

My observations are anecdotal, however after 300+ KASE elites I am amazed at the difference. I'll run ACT on the next run and compare that to previous tests today.

Admiral Thrax

Update: I'm going to run this a few more time to be sure. A clear 4-6K jump in my overall dps. While I don't see this being the same for PvP, in PvE this is a significant step up in my damage potential. HY doesn't appear to be 'all that' better than Quantum, but the Torp Spread III is a sight to behold.

Last edited by ddesjardins; 12-13-2012 at 06:24 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 294
# 50
12-14-2012, 12:52 AM
[Combat (Self)] Your Plasma Energy Bolt deals 79142 (44386) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Tactical Cube.

recent ISE run... just wanted to share.
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