Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,100
# 11
12-10-2012, 03:17 PM
Over the past few months I have been compounding a list of all the size issues in STO. The document itself is on another computer, but here are some of the highlights:

1. The Defiant is too big. It should be about 1/6th the length of Galaxy class when in game it's closer to 1/3.

2. DS9 is actually too big. It's about 5 times it's actual size. Here's it compared to a Galaxy class.

3. Deep Space K-7 on the other hand is FIFTY TIMES it's actual size. It's about 350 meters making it smaller than a Excelsior.

4. Hilariously, Spacedock is actually too small. Canonically, it can contain eight Galaxy Class sized ships. When in game... a Galaxy class can't even fit through the doors.

5. Player Starbases are also to big. The windows don't line up to player ship windows. (No matter the ship)
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
# 12
12-10-2012, 03:57 PM
Quote:
STO's starships (with the exception of the Defiant due to DS9 never consistently representing its size) are in correct scale to each other as per the most official measurements available.
No they aren't.

Akira's far too small, Steamrunner's far too big, Defiant's far too big, Sovereign's far too small, etc, etc. There are a lot of cases of wrongly-scaled Fed ships.

If there's no official size, go to the backstage. Don't just make something up. And that's what they've done for a lot of these ships. 244 meter long Steamrunner somehow turned into a 500 meter long ship, and 464 meter Akira is smaller then an Intrepid..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 152
# 13
12-10-2012, 04:20 PM
To be honest, I don't mind ship sizes being the way they are compared to each other because there are playability issues that need to be considered. What I do think should be done is a rescaling of the overall environment. My Prometheus is the same size as Earth's moon. This should not happen. Bridge Commander did this right, where planets actually looked like planets, and the Starbase was not only the right size but you could actually fly around inside of it. The overall environment is way to small for what it should be. Earth is the size of a moon and the moon is the size of a small asteroid.

Last edited by lancemeszaros; 12-10-2012 at 04:25 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,100
# 14
12-11-2012, 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancemeszaros View Post
To be honest, I don't mind ship sizes being the way they are compared to each other because there are playability issues that need to be considered. What I do think should be done is a rescaling of the overall environment. My Prometheus is the same size as Earth's moon. This should not happen. Bridge Commander did this right, where planets actually looked like planets, and the Starbase was not only the right size but you could actually fly around inside of it. The overall environment is way to small for what it should be. Earth is the size of a moon and the moon is the size of a small asteroid.
Very true, but resizing the ships would do wonders for setting this game apart from the rest of it's competition. Most space based games have ships more or less the same size, or sized based on power. But within the Star Trek verse, bigger ships aren't necessarily more powerful. Being a Galaxy class, and being one of the biggest kids on the block is really cool, but going in an itty-bitty Defiant and getting the same results is also really cool.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 374
# 15
12-12-2012, 12:30 AM
would love to see that and fly with my defiant through the galaxy warp nacelles like an x-wing through the outer perimeter of the deathstar.

right now, we cannot say what is wrong and what not because we have to base where we can build on. therefor, we should start with the smallest ship that you can actually still see and say that this is the correct size. lets take the defiant. then we know from now on, that the defiant is correct and have to upscale/downscale everything else compared to her.

but then, it comes to planets and they have to be up scaled on a crazy level and with the current game engine, i dont know if this will still work on every computer. however, i would love it. would make the game twice as fun as its by now.
What ? Calaway.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,919
# 16
12-12-2012, 12:49 AM
Even the television series had problems making everything to the proper scale, DS9 and the Enterprise D are actually roughly the same size, yet the Enterprise is always depicted as being smaller. The station had 3 Danube class shuttles that at the scale they were presented on the station would have been too big to fit in the Enterprise shuttle bays, if the scales of the ships were as they appear. License had to be taken with model scales to give the viewers something to look at during action sequences. When Voyager is docked at the station it looks to be the same size as the Enterprise despite the fact that Intrepid class ships a roughly the same size as Constitution class ships which are half the size of the Galaxy class.

There is the playability factor to consider in this game as well, an important part of the game is eye appeal, some of our ships are enormous and if everything is scaled accurately, zooming out to make the players ship visible would make everything else tiny in comparison. Without a target window showing a zoomed in view of the target ship, players would spend a lot of time dealing with tiny specs buzzing around them, without really seeing what they are shooting at while players in those specs would have to content with their own ships being nearly invisible in comparison to the ships around them, that would be a great deal less interesting to look at than what we have now.
I know the current state is not perfect, but I don't think rescaling ships is going to be an actual improvement, in fact it will only highlight what is missing from the game, target cameras, a bridge view, some kind of 3d radar view.

Myself, I make believe that everything I see is a computer magnification of the ships on screen and that the actual ship may be much smaller or much larger, that's one of the reasons why a ship passing me in sector space appears to be as big as a planet even though it's light years away.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
# 17
12-12-2012, 12:54 AM
Quote:
DS9 and the Enterprise D are actually roughly the same size, yet the Enterprise is always depicted as being smaller
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ked_at_DS9.jpg

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ocked,_ds9.jpg

What?

The DS9 TM states that the station is 969.26 meters tall. That's about right, compared with the screenshots above.

If it's almost 1,000 meters tall, you can work out that it's roughly 1,400 meters in diameter.

That's a hell of a lot bigger then a Galaxy-class.

http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/...Space_Nine.jpg

There we see Voyager moments after leaving the docking clamps. It looks to be about half the size of a Galaxy-class, which it rightfully should be.

A lot of the problems with the scaling in the show is that they were

1) Working with physical studio models in an era of limited computer assistance

2) On a tight timescale, trying to get episodes out quickly

We suffer from neither of the above.

Last edited by wunjee; 12-12-2012 at 01:08 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,060
# 18
12-12-2012, 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
Over the past few months I have been compounding a list of all the size issues in STO. The document itself is on another computer, but here are some of the highlights:

1. The Defiant is too big. It should be about 1/6th the length of Galaxy class when in game it's closer to 1/3.

2. DS9 is actually too big. It's about 5 times it's actual size. Here's it compared to a Galaxy class.

3. Deep Space K-7 on the other hand is FIFTY TIMES it's actual size. It's about 350 meters making it smaller than a Excelsior.

4. Hilariously, Spacedock is actually too small. Canonically, it can contain eight Galaxy Class sized ships. When in game... a Galaxy class can't even fit through the doors.

5. Player Starbases are also to big. The windows don't line up to player ship windows. (No matter the ship)
yeah the thinks you named really need adjustment...it looks so silly when in sherman system...the windows on K7 don't even match each other. K7 and DS9 need to be redone. K7 may be alot cooler if it was in it's TOS style...not the personell, just the furniture + some windows that correspond to the outside design.

i guess the ships are not scaled for the sake of gameplay, otherwise the defiant would really be unspottable small...but since PVP balancing is irrelevant at this point, i see no reason why it couldn't be done.

if the gameplay aspects in this game aren't up to Trek, plz cryptic atleast make the ships and environment as accurate as possible.

too big hallways/rooms (some of the newer bridges are already better, but still)

i sure hope once Neverwinter is released, cryptic will put some effort into updating the STO engine and grafics + some remodelling.
Go pro or go home
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,100
# 19
12-13-2012, 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wunjee View Post
A lot of the problems with the scaling in the show is that they were

1) Working with physical studio models in an era of limited computer assistance

2) On a tight timescale, trying to get episodes out quickly

We suffer from neither of the above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
if the gameplay aspects in this game aren't up to Trek, plz cryptic atleast make the ships and environment as accurate as possible.
These.... oh so very much these.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,801
# 20
12-13-2012, 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wunjee View Post
No they aren't.
Yeah they are, for the most part.

Ship sizes in game. A bit outdated, but it's not like they've resized anything since then.

Graph showing each ship plotted along a line, where the line represents the correct scale for each ship, including a line that takes into account the "visibility skew" of shuttles.

As you can clearly see, the majority of ships as of this posting a very close to the line where they ought to be. The only exceptions are the Sabre, Akira, and Defiant. The last of which was so inconsistently shown that "official measurements" and the end-all be-all that is screen canon are at odds with each other constantly.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:13 AM.