Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 1321
12-19-2012, 03:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reyan01 View Post
Agreed - using a rainbow/skittle setup indicates that the player in question lacks some understanding of ship setups. Though to be fair, discounting those who argue that such setups are viable, it really is a classic case of "you don't know unless you are told otherwise".

Certainly, I ran a semi-rainbow build back in my VERY early days (up until I hit Lt-Commander) but soon learnt, from visiting the forums, that sticking to a single weapon type produces vastly superior results.
I think the "vastly" part is a bit exaggerated here on the forum. Maybe tomorrow ill post a parse of a skittle setup compared to a pure energy setup just to show the difference isn't really that big. It's about the same as the difference between a 4 and 5 tac console escort. On cruisers and sic ships, it's even less prevalent (not as many tac consoles). Of all the ways to screw up your DPS, it's probably the most often cited, while also being on of the least attributing factors.

Last edited by xantris; 12-19-2012 at 03:19 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,001
# 1322
12-19-2012, 03:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
[...] when the Bird of Prey is drawing the AGGRO ff your Fedscort, Armitage, and/or Defiant, you have what is colloquially termed, "A PROBLEM".

I had a Negh'var chase me half way across the damn map again-cloaked.

TWICE. I KNOW I'm not doing THAT much DPS-I can READ.
I feel your pain.

Had that happen to me quite a lot on my KDF tac, in a Hegh'ta.

The problem isn't that I do inferior dps, per se. Just a straight up cannons and 1 quantum build, no trics or BO or any such threat generators. It's just that these fed escorts have 1-2 tactical consoles more, and should therefore be able to out-dps me easily, all other factors being equal.

In practice, this math rarely pans out.

Then again, I tend to have the same problem on my tac (mirror) Vor'cha, my eng Negh'var and my fed sci Wells.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,655
# 1323
12-19-2012, 03:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twam View Post
I feel your pain.

Had that happen to me quite a lot on my KDF tac, in a Hegh'ta.

The problem isn't that I do inferior dps, per se. Just a straight up cannons and 1 quantum build, no trics or BO or any such threat generators. It's just that these fed escorts have 1-2 tactical consoles more, and should therefore be able to out-dps me easily, all other factors being equal.

In practice, this math rarely pans out.

Then again, I tend to have the same problem on my tac (mirror) Vor'cha, my eng Negh'var and my fed sci Wells.
I think the term we're looking for, is "Setup"-maybe it's just that I PvP as much or more than I PvE, so I run a lot more power to my weaps than most Feds (whom are, in the end, mostly PvE to ALL PvE), thus while I have one less weapon, two fewer consoles, etc etc the imbalance turns on my spec, in particular the synergy between weapons power and skills-but it's endlessly frustrating when I can take a Hegh'ta onto a map with two Defiants and an Armitage, backed up by a Tac Oddy, and it's me that the cubes and other NPC units 'notice', instead of all that top-tier Federation iron.

About the only times I end up NOT being the one all the Borg wanna dance with in CSE or Khitomer, is when the rest of the team are either from a named Fed PvP fleet, or all Klingon.

which is kind of depressing, considering how mediocre I AM at PvP-I get my ass handed to me regularly, sometimes with a dose of sauce.

This last couple times, I don't think I managed more than 3K damage on an alpha-strike but after the first one, the damn Borg were on me whenever and where ever I de-cloaked.

Like it was learning or something. Add in that some jerkoff decided to blow the first cube as soon as the probes were down on it, instead of letting us work over the spawn-generators on the other two first...
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

Last edited by patrickngo; 12-19-2012 at 03:38 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,041
# 1324
12-19-2012, 03:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake81499 View Post
Not true. There's a lot of stuff that maters. There's heals, cooperation, death, tanking, quite a bit of stuff. It would be way easy for a savy programmer to figure out.
I would rather have a group of 5 people each +6k DPS, that do not cooperate, bad at healing, so they are bad at tanking, so they die a lot.

owait! with 6k+ DPS stuff do not survive long enough to even kill you, so you do not need to heal nor tank anything. also you cant screw up with that amount of DPS, because you can kill anything just in time, before anything bad could happen (also appearantly those who deal massive dps, somehow easily survive big enemies...)

so yeah, I would take DPS over anything else in this game.

also, I said 8k dps, because that is a fairly high number. tbh a group of 5k would breeze trhough anything.

yesterday I joined an ISE, where the 5th didnt show up, and we finished with 5 mins still on the clock. and to my surprise I only dealt 6k dps, but the other three team mates dealt 4k each.

in conclusion: STF=DPS, other parts of the game DPS=/=you can getaway with low dps if you are doing something else well
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 247
# 1325
12-19-2012, 03:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
Maybe tomorrow ill post a parse of a skittle setup compared to a pure energy setup just to show the difference isn't really that big.
There's a big difference between posting the numbers and doing the mission. When you watch a skittle or rainbow/technicolor boat spend way too much time trying to kill a BOP then you know there is really something major wrong with the build. There is enough of a difference even in a well set up skittle boat to make it not worth a hoot. So why even bother with them. Let the noobes have their day with the skittles and rainbow/technicolor boom boats and the rest of us will go on doing all the killing.

Like I said and many others have said, we have all had our own rainbow/technicolor boats at one time or another. It took me one mission to see that it wasn't any good, it just takes others much much longer.

It's still fun to post about or experiances with them and watch them fumble around chasing a BOP all the way back to the Kang without making a dent in the shields. It's just not a lot of fun if we lose a mission because of them. But then too, there are a lot more ways to lose a mission than with a technicolor/rainbow boom boat.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,655
# 1326
12-19-2012, 03:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake81499 View Post
There's a big difference between posting the numbers and doing the mission. When you watch a skittle or rainbow/technicolor boat spend way too much time trying to kill a BOP then you know there is really something major wrong with the build. There is enough of a difference even in a well set up skittle boat to make it not worth a hoot. So why even bother with them. Let the noobes have their day with the skittles and rainbow/technicolor boom boats and the rest of us will go on doing all the killing.

Like I said and many others have said, we have all had our own rainbow/technicolor boats at one time or another. It took me one mission to see that it wasn't any good, it just takes others much much longer.

It's still fun to post about or experiances with them and watch them fumble around chasing a BOP all the way back to the Kang without making a dent in the shields. It's just not a lot of fun if we lose a mission because of them. But then too, there are a lot more ways to lose a mission than with a technicolor/rainbow boom boat.
it's possible-not likely, but possible, I suppose, to have a rainboat and be effective-moderately, anywah.

run all torp consoles with HYT and Torp Spreads, all projectile DoFFs, and the right sci powers, maybe, so that it doesn't matter WHAT energy weps you're hauling, because it's all about the projectiles.

MAYBE.

A sci-boat build, perhaps, just enough beams to use the subsystem targeting features, (maybe a dual on the front and a single on the rear, the remaining slots full of torps and mines), but that's a really specialized build and i'm not sure it would even WORK.

Maybe something to try when I build my FedSci.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 1327
12-19-2012, 03:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake81499 View Post
There's a big difference between posting the numbers and doing the mission.)


No, there really isn't. The damage parse would come directly from an eSTF. If you'd like I'll post a video as well, although that might need to wait an extra day or two. 90% of skittle/rainbow boats DPS problems have little to do with their weapons selection.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 247
# 1328
12-19-2012, 03:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdzso0 View Post
I would rather have a group of 5 people each +6k DPS, that do not cooperate, bad at healing, so they are bad at tanking, so they die a lot.
A group of 5 people with +6k DPS might be a bit far and few between. I've done a number of STF's with excellent groups who could finish an STF in nothing flat. But the normal STF isn't all that great.

Just completed...

CSN

I pug in and say 'HI' as usual.

No responce.

I buzz over to the right and start on the nodes.

All four of the others head to the Kang.

I finish all the nodes, no help, and the Cube, no help.

I fly over to Kang and killing a couple Borg that the rest were strugling with.

I see one ship setting about 15K off in the distance.

Two of the others sport Rainbow/Technicolor beams and one is dead.

I fly to the Center and kill three of the nodes, still no help.

Boom, Kang dead.

I never noticed the optional fail. If I had I could have saved the Kang by going and doing what the Rainbow/Technicolor Boom Boats and the Farmer couldn't.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,001
# 1329
12-19-2012, 03:58 AM
I think I see a pattern here.

One side claims that, all other factors being in working order, skittles would not detract too much from damage/success.

The other side claims that no, skittles are ineffective and bad, because they almost always are an indication of the other problems present.

I think everybody generally agrees, here, but some are curious what the overall effect is of skittles vs non-skittles, if the ship is flown "correctly" other than that.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 1330
12-19-2012, 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
it's possible-not likely, but possible, I suppose, to have a rainboat and be effective-moderately, anywah.

run all torp consoles with HYT and Torp Spreads, all projectile DoFFs, and the right sci powers, maybe, so that it doesn't matter WHAT energy weps you're hauling, because it's all about the projectiles.

MAYBE.

.
A pure energy boat works just fine. It's not optimal, but I'd wager I could post higher damage numbers in a pure energy skittle setup than about 98% of the folks your likely to come across in pug eSTFs do in their single energy boats. It's far more about skills, key binds, etc than it is your weapon layout,
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