Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,660
# 1 Star Trek question
12-20-2012, 07:22 AM
What is wrong with Nemesis. I ask this beacuse people say it isnt good and it did not make much in the box office.
I personally love it
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Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 909
# 2
12-20-2012, 07:39 AM
I considered it to be the best Star Trek film made when I first saw it. I heard several other people say the same thing. It got kind of draggy at times, but I really liked it.

I personally think a lot of people liked it, but those who made the most noise about it didn't.

Porthos is not amused.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,717
# 3
12-20-2012, 07:44 AM
"This was a mistake, we are wasting time"
Shinzon is going to die soon yet he procrastinates so much during the film.

"When the Federation is ashes, you have my permission to die".

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JJ. Trek is just as canon and awesome as all other Trek, Get over it.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,883
# 4
12-20-2012, 07:50 AM
The box office ratings were a number of factors in my view.

it was right around Christmas when everyone has spent their money and are probably being a bit more careful what they buy, it was sandwiched between a couple of huge films (one was either harry potter or lord of the rings and i think the other was a james bond film). it was released after insurrection which was a fine star trek film, but not so much for the casual so it had no big reputation going in and it got mixed reviews.

if it had been released after first contact, in the summer with no big blockbusters around it, i think it would have done much better.

i remember loving the film when i saw it and thought it was the best one. repeat viewings have made me see the cracks and flaws in the film but i still enjoy it.

i think its gets more flack than it deserves but it could have been better, and could have been marketed better.

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Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 909
# 5
12-20-2012, 07:51 AM
It probably also had a lot of baggage to contend with due to franchise fatigue among the general public and Insurrection (which I totally agree was a terrible movie. Right up (down?) there with ST V).

Porthos is not amused.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,918
# 6
12-20-2012, 08:10 AM
The plot was shallow, too much action with next to no story.
The villain was 2 dimensional, a cliche' bad guy with no subtlety in his actions doing pointless random evil things like assassinating the Romulan senate, which served no real purpose in his goal to get to Picard, psychically raping Troi which would only served to further isolate him from his goals, hacking B4 which given the Enterprise crew's experience with other Soong androids, they should have been much more careful with, but weren't.
The whole scene with Picard and company tooling around in a dune buggy finding pieces of B4 lying on the ground before being attacked by a bunch of Mad Max wannabes was pointless and made Picard look like a reckless idiot. A main point of the movie was that the team was breaking up and going it's separate ways. Riker and Troi are getting married and going to a new ship. Data is killed off only to be given a miracle save by having copied his memories into B4.
It almost seemed like everyone was saying "This is the end, we're tired of Star Trek, let's get this over with".
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,506
# 7
12-20-2012, 08:14 AM
There were a couple of little things I didn't like about it (such as the photo of Picard being bald as a cadet, when TNG had clearly established him having hair as an adult) for the most part, I really enjoyed it, especially when Picard sent the IM from the command chair to the helm (I now know how Tom and Harry would spend boring duty shifts ) I liked the idea of Shinzon being a clone of Picard (I suspect created from DNA acquired from his previous mission to Romulus with Data to find Spock) and thought Hardy played the part brilliantly (although I will admit a bias, as Tom Hardy is one of my favorite actors) I absolutely loved Donatra, and ironically, never even recognized Dina Meyer till the credits rolled, but I thought she was a fantastic character, and deserved better than what STO did to her I can kind of understand why people didn't like it, but I had no issue with it
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 949
# 8
12-20-2012, 08:17 AM
Personally I'm torn between liking and disliking nemesis

Quite a bit of it felt.. unnecessary

The argo, yeah i guess the vehicle would be a bit better than a shuttle, but meh

The whole Troi mind ****, it was SO unnecessary, 'what does this film need?' Mind ****. that's what nee.. uhm

Similar to unnecessary, when shinzon is impaled, he then squiges up further impaling himself to have a chat with picard.. yummy.

The scene when a reman boarding party was on the ship, shinzon's aide and riker fight on a rickety gantry over a bottomless pit.. someone explain how that adheres to health and safety regs on a starship :p

The remans themselves, yeah it adds to the romulus/remus silliness but it feels like they were wrote in simply to excuse the troi aggro i have >.<

ANY Mirror/echo/Voice metaphors, MY GOD i was sick of hearing them. 'i am the voice' 'i am your mirror' 'he's not your mirror he doesnt have a goatee' 'the echo will outlast the voice' SHARRUP! >.<

Some things kinda felt unexplained,
Shinzon baits the enterprise and picard.. with a 'older than data' Soong prototype, where the hell did he get that >.>

Shinzon's motivation for revenge, that was something i didnt understand too..
-the romulans made me, the romulans cast me into the mine, the romulans forgot about me... therefore picard and earth must die. *ahem* someone find the logic in that please

Like someone already mentioned, shinzon's actions of; I am dying... i have the power to snatch him from his ship.. lets have a natter, get to know him, **** a close friend, then wonder why I die?


And finally there was something that felt unnecessary midway through the space confrontation, the dropping the cloak bit, yes it bring the valdur closer, but could he have not just moved the ship slightly then fired? (honestly i dont understand why that happened other than dramatic shouting and explosions)
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,506
# 9
12-20-2012, 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elandarksky View Post
Personally I'm torn between liking and disliking nemesis

Quite a bit of it felt.. unnecessary

The argo, yeah i guess the vehicle would be a bit better than a shuttle, but meh

The whole Troi mind ****, it was SO unnecessary, 'what does this film need?' Mind ****. that's what nee.. uhm

Similar to unnecessary, when shinzon is impaled, he then squiges up further impaling himself to have a chat with picard.. yummy.

The scene when a reman boarding party was on the ship, shinzon's aide and riker fight on a rickety gantry over a bottomless pit.. someone explain how that adheres to health and safety regs on a starship :p

The remans themselves, yeah it adds to the romulus/remus silliness but it feels like they were wrote in simply to excuse the troi aggro i have >.<

ANY Mirror/echo/Voice metaphors, MY GOD i was sick of hearing them. 'i am the voice' 'i am your mirror' 'he's not your mirror he doesnt have a goatee' 'the echo will outlast the voice' SHARRUP! >.<

Some things kinda felt unexplained,
Shinzon baits the enterprise and picard.. with a 'older than data' Soong prototype, where the hell did he get that >.>

Shinzon's motivation for revenge, that was something i didnt understand too..
-the romulans made me, the romulans cast me into the mine, the romulans forgot about me... therefore picard and earth must die. *ahem* someone find the logic in that please

Like someone already mentioned, shinzon's actions of; I am dying... i have the power to snatch him from his ship.. lets have a natter, get to know him, **** a close friend, then wonder why I die?


And finally there was something that felt unnecessary midway through the space confrontation, the dropping the cloak bit, yes it bring the valdur closer, but could he have not just moved the ship slightly then fired? (honestly i dont understand why that happened other than dramatic shouting and explosions)
Picard had to die so Shinzon could live. Ultimately, everything which happened was part of Shinzon's plan to bring Picard to him... B4 was placed on Colarus so the Enterprise would be most likely to investigate, and thus be close enough to the Neutral Zone to be the closest ship to respond to a diplomatic invitation, so the Romulan senate had to die so Shinzon would be in a position of authoritah to extend the invitation to the Federation... Other than that, yeah, I quite agree with the points you made (was awesome seeing Bryan Singer's cameo, and him then getting sucked through the void where the forward viewscreen used to be ) The scene between Riker and Shinzon's viceroy (can't even remember his name ) was a pretty good example of pointless, and just existed to give Riker the opportunity to kick the ass of the guy who mindraped his wife... As for the gantry, Geordi obviously saw the gantry Kirk fell to his death in, and thought "When I get me a new ship, I'm getting this Piece of History installed, no one will notice..."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 949
# 10
12-20-2012, 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
Picard had to die so Shinzon could live.

B4 was placed on Colarus so the Enterprise would be most likely to investigate

The scene between Riker and Shinzon's viceroy (can't even remember his name ) was a pretty good example of pointless, and just existed to give Riker the opportunity to kick the ass of the guy who mindraped his wife... As for the gantry, Geordi obviously saw the gantry Kirk fell to his death in, and thought "When I get me a new ship, I'm getting this Piece of History installed, no one will notice..."
- Ah yeah, forgot about that bit, a full blood transfusion or something, been a while since i last watched and payed attention

- But still where did the B4 pop up from ^^

- its a bit of a worry when neither of us can remeber the guys name XD such a memorable and well write character, as for geordi, knowing his luck it would have been him doing a kirk xD poor georgi in TNG normally being the one getting thrown about O.o'
Your Heavy Graviton Beam deals 26470 (10583) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
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