Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
We've been watching and listening to the large amount of feedback that's come from the PvP community, and elsewhere, in regards to the astonishing amount of damage Tricobalt Mines have become capable of dealing since the Mine Revamp, and the recent Mine Console bug fix. For the most part, we held off on making any further changes to their functionality until more feedback and hands-on testing occurred, due to the fact that these weapons remain susceptible to counter, and come with a very steep cost of opportunity to be used effectively:

- They can be shot down (even accidentally).
- They can be outran.
- They have very lengthy cooldowns.
- Their damage is significantly reduced by shields, and an unshielded hit is statistically unlikely.
- Utilizing a Dispersal Pattern requires up to a Commander-rank Boff Slot.
- Getting the most out of them requires sacrificing Console and/or Doff slots to a dedicated build.

Despite these drawbacks, the amount of feedback we receive on a daily basis has kept the issue on our radar, and under tight scrutiny. After a recent series of internal tests, we've decided that a few changes are warranted, and will soon be carried out:

The following changes will appear in a future patch to Tribble (probably in early January):

- The damage dealt by Tricobalt Mine Explosions have been reduced by 10% across-the-board.

- The damage variance of Tricobalt Mine Explosions have been reduced from 20% to 5% (this will lead to more predictable damage ? fewer highs, fewer lows)

- The stealth value on Tricobalt Mines has been reduced by approximately 25% (this should allow them to be seen from about 1k further than previous).

We're also still in the process of considering some, or possibly all, of the following changes:

- Scaling the damage down on Dispersal Pattern versions of Tricobalts, so that each individual mine does less damage with the more mines you launch. The total damage of the Dispersal Pattern would be significantly reduced if we took this option, but would still far exceed that of what a single Tricobalt Mine would deal. It would look something like the following:
*** Tricobalt Mines created by Rank 1 of Dispersal Pattern Alpha and Beta reduced to 75% of the damage of a standard Tricobalt Mine (x2 mines = 150% of basic mine)
*** Tricobalt Mines created by Rank 2 of Dispersal Pattern Alpha and Beta reduced to 60% of the damage of a standard Tricobalt Mine (x3 mines = 180% of basic mine)
*** Tricobalt Mines created by Rank 3 of Dispersal Pattern Alpha and Beta reduced to 50% of the damage of a standard Tricobalt Mine (x4 mines = 200% of basic mine)

- Granting a Point Defense system to Battleship and Dreadnought NPCs that would deal a tiny amount of damage per pulse (<50 dmg, does not ignore shields, no procs), but pulses very frequently and favors the nearest target.
*** This would be a soft-counter to Mine Spam One-Shots, but would have the side effect of making them nearly immune to High Yield torpedoes. (We also have the option of forcing it to target -only- mines, if necessary.)

We're particularly interested in hearing feedback on these last two options, as we're still deliberating whether or not they are a necessity, or even a good idea.

After more testing and feedback, we may decide that the overall damage dealt by Tricobalts needs to be reduced even further at some point in the future. If it comes to that, we will also re-evaluate the cooldowns associated with these weapons to ensure that their overall combat viability remains strong.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 683
# 2
12-20-2012, 11:58 AM
I was under the impression that the core problem of (Tricobalt) mines was the phenomenon of "linked crits", i.e. if one mine of a dispersal pattern crits, they all crit.

Does this behaviour still exist?
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,000
# 3
12-20-2012, 12:00 PM
Well, this effectively kill my fun Vesta mine layer build :-(
Hi, my name is: Elim Garak, Former Cardassian Oppressor

LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,702
# 4
12-20-2012, 12:02 PM
*big thumbs up* Bort on a roll

I think that adjusting mine patterns, combined with the first mentioned changes sounds promising. Let's test and see.

However, Tac cpt skills might still push them to unreasonable amount when in a time-ship. Time ship + specced tric mines = is pretty unfun combo on the receiving end, since those counters.....where are they again, right I'm stunned they don't apply
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Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
# 5
12-20-2012, 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
I was under the impression that the core problem of (Tricobalt) mines was the phenomenon of "linked crits", i.e. if one mine of a dispersal pattern crits, they all crit.

Does this behaviour still exist?
This behavior does exist, and it a concern that's not being ignored. To be clear, it's existed since Launch, but has been amplified by Tricobalt Mines due to the massive amount of damage they can deal on a crit.

We've requested this to become a high priority for our Software team. But to be honest, there are a vast number of issues that are "high priority" on their list right now. As such, we (the Systems Team) can't guarantee any sort of timeline on a fix.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 6
12-20-2012, 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
I was under the impression that the core problem of (Tricobalt) mines was the phenomenon of "linked crits", i.e. if one mine of a dispersal pattern crits, they all crit.

Does this behaviour still exist?
yeah, and its not just tric mines that are the problem with that.

those transphasic cluster mine torps are just as bad as trics when they crit.


otherwise, the changes look very promising.

just please make sure when you mention the auto defense battery on the npc's that this wasnt the pvp communites evil ploy to inhibit their "fun".

id like to avoid animosity from them.

thanks

whens this gonna appear on tribble?


Quote:
Originally Posted by trhrangerxml View Post
Well, this effectively kill my fun Vesta mine layer build :-(
if this kills that build then maybe the build was a little to reliant on "one shot trics"
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 769
# 7
12-20-2012, 12:17 PM
So, no more one shots of Borg BOPs? Aw, I liked returning the favor.

And from what you said, you're patching over the real issue with this rather than fixing it. What's to stop someone saying Tricobalts don't do it for me anymore, and finding the next best thing and having the problem all over again. Or better yet, will this change you are implementing be reversed when, or if, the problem with all mines critting is fixed?
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 78
# 8
12-20-2012, 12:18 PM
Finally! Thanks!
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 103
# 9
12-20-2012, 12:22 PM
Well, IMO, first solution looks just fine. Altho some ppl wll say that some counters dont work on them, actually they do. I`ve been playin a bit with trics on my sci, did some matches to to see what will happen, and how many kills i will get with "one shot". Well result of kills is rly low - why? Mines are easy to counter, in lot of cases when i tryed to kill some1 with them i failed. Tricobalts where destroyed by; CSV, torp spreads, TBR`s, etc etc. OR, my target was very well prepared to mines and had EPtS + TT on (probably even more resistance than that), OR they just ran off like U - KNOW - WHO. Not to mention enemy`s pets, photonic fleet, and enemy`s players mines as well.

I know my reply will be hardly attacked but IDK,

One crits all crits issue, dunno, DHC`s are also critting like crazy, just take a not how many times escort will "cloak" while firing on you

Cheers
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 486
# 10
12-20-2012, 12:23 PM
I like the 'distributed damage' option, as it keeps the advantage of distribution patterns but limits the one-shots. Especially given the disabling effect of tricobalts, it makes sense that you couldn't unleash a swarm of super-mines that each have high damage.


The idea of point-defense for dreadnoughts is a good one, but I fear it is too much for battleships. Dreadnoughts are only encountered as special enemies or by very large groups, and being extra tough makes sense. But if I couldn't use my high-yield plasmas against any battleship in the game, it would be rather inconvenient.
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