Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,738
# 11
12-20-2012, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkyss2 View Post
OR, my target was very well prepared to mines and had EPtS + TT on (probably even more resistance than that),
lol. Mines have taken people out through shields.


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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 12
12-20-2012, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post

- Granting a Point Defense system to Battleship and Dreadnought NPCs that would deal a tiny amount of damage per pulse (<50 dmg, does not ignore shields, no procs), but pulses very frequently and favors the nearest target.
*** This would be a soft-counter to Mine Spam One-Shots, but would have the side effect of making them nearly immune to High Yield torpedoes. (We also have the option of forcing it to target -only- mines, if necessary.)
Did npc complaint too?

But yeah, like mancom said, I was under impression that the big attraction towards tric mines was that if one rolled a crit, every mine from dispersal critted as well. Was this looked at in your test?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 13
12-20-2012, 12:27 PM
Quote:
- Their damage is significantly reduced by shields, and an unshielded hit is statistically unlikely.
The proposed changes sound like a good start but please bear in mind that this isn't remotely true. There are a number of build options we can detail which almost guarantee an unshielded hit, and more to the point, the burst of a DPB3 tric mine cluster overwhelms shields. When clusters strike for six-digit figures it's nigh impossible within the confines of the game to reduce that damage to a survivable amount, bar the few exceptions like the Intrepid toy console.

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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,828
# 14 Tric Mines
12-20-2012, 12:30 PM
Ok I am not going to start this by complaining about tric mines...

However I think almost all of us will admit they are broken.

I was hoping we could start a discussion as to how to fix them here.

I have a bunch of ideas of ways to correct the issue... and I would love to hear what other people think on them... if we are lucky perhaps cryptic will even listen and implement something to make them good but not the cheese ball weapon they have become.

So first let me list what I hear people list as issues with them

1) Base dmg... I think most people feel there dmg is to high, although not all and some see th issue as pattern based.

2) dispersal patterns... again I think most people feel being able to spit 4 out is crazy considering issue 1

3) Crit linking.... Some people feel the way they crit where one crits they all crit is an issue

4) MES values... some people feel they don't deserve to have a high mes value or even have one at all considering how powerful they are.

5) Aoe that works different from tricobalt torps... there is no splash dmg from trics and therefor no deterent to dropping them point blank in a mess of spam. Or using stupid things like the Timeship drop.


If anyone else has other issues with them post em... but that is what I have heard myself.

Here is how I see it...

1) I think the base dmg is a tad high... however if they where Max one out I wouldn't have any issue with it.

2) dispersal patterns... this I think needs to change and I have a few ideas.

3) crit linking... myself I see no issue with it... I also know that the system treats patterns and dots as one weapon pull... and I am fine with the way it works... I don't think any weapon that can crit to 300k+ deserves this bonus... but myself I think the issue is that a single weapon can crit for 300k+ not the linking

4) mes values... I am torn on this one... I think all mines need mes to be viable... but ya not being able to clear tric mines with scatter or fire at will is an issue considering they can insta wipe a team.


My thoughts on Solutions....

1) Reduce Base dmg by 20% or so... perhaps this is all that is needed... as a base dmg reduction should reduce the super high crits. (easiest for cryptic to implement... not sure if it would really solve the issue... but I'll throw it out there first)

2) Change Dispersal pattern use. Options include;
- Simply remove the option to disperal pattern tric mines
- Change the way the dispersal works... this is one of my fav ideas. We know cryptic has the tech to change weapon cool downs based on HY use... so the tech should be applicable... What if Dispersal patterns on tric mines reduced there cool down... like the time torp cool down is increased when you HY them. Just in reverse... Working like this;
- No Dispersal 30s cool down
- Dispersal 1 10s cool down reduction
- dispersal 2 15s cool down reduction
- Dispersal 3 20s cool down reduction
This would mean you could kick out multiples over a set time frame... and get a drop rate with one mine close to that of someone with 2 and no patterns. The mines could perhaps even get a 100% chance to proc a rift at that point, and have higher dmg just like a Torp hy... as long as its one out I don't think it would be a major issue and it would still have massive potential if you can land it.

3) MES adjustments. Perhaps they need a lower mes value so they can be cleared more easily.

4) Some type of Crit limiter... perhaps a Negative CrtD value by default on Tric mines.


Anyway those are a few ideas to help bring these mines into line... Myself I like the idea of changes to the dispersal patterns as I think that is the real issue with them.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 12-20-2012 at 12:34 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 15
12-20-2012, 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
The proposed changes sound like a good start but please bear in mind that this isn't remotely true. There are a number of build options we can detail which almost guarantee an unshielded hit, and more to the point, the burst of a DPB3 tric mine cluster overwhelms shields. When clusters strike for six-digit figures it's nigh impossible within the confines of the game to reduce that damage to a survivable amount, bar the few exceptions like the Intrepid toy console.
my shield strip build is a good example of removing them shields.... sure it doesnt work on everyone, but when it works... it works to devastating effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 16
12-20-2012, 12:32 PM
dude, totally look at the post that was just put up on what theyre planning to do to fix them
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,691
# 17
12-20-2012, 12:34 PM
i actually just began using trics and truthfully...I would rather have seen a 25% damage cut and a 40 second cooldown between drops of singles and 20 between drops of 2.

however i understand that many of these changes are occurring because the minority (PvP) want balance...but at the same time I've seen players that can tric the heck of out stfs like nothing, blowing right through the regens of the transformers in The Conduit..so yeah this change is helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,828
# 18
12-20-2012, 12:34 PM
lol not sure how I missed that.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 19
12-20-2012, 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
- Granting a Point Defense system to Battleship and Dreadnought NPCs that would deal a tiny amount of damage per pulse (<50 dmg, does not ignore shields, no procs), but pulses very frequently and favors the nearest target.
*** This would be a soft-counter to Mine Spam One-Shots, but would have the side effect of making them nearly immune to High Yield torpedoes. (We also have the option of forcing it to target -only- mines, if necessary.)

We're particularly interested in hearing feedback on these last two options, as we're still deliberating whether or not they are a necessity, or even a good idea.
PvE related, but nonetheless:

Point defense as described above is going to screw over small craft related abilities (fighters, boarding party etc) as well. Either make it a mine-only counter, or don't put it in at all.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,828
# 20
12-20-2012, 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
This behavior does exist, and it a concern that's not being ignored. To be clear, it's existed since Launch, but has been amplified by Tricobalt Mines due to the massive amount of damage they can deal on a crit.

We've requested this to become a high priority for our Software team. But to be honest, there are a vast number of issues that are "high priority" on their list right now. As such, we (the Systems Team) can't guarantee any sort of timeline on a fix.
I don't think this is a negative behavious... and honestly don't want to see this changed... for a few reasons.

1) I think its fine as is... when you HY or Spread something it is counting as one pull for procs yes... so why not crits as well... I don't think this is an issue as long as crits are not mega sized.

2) From what I understand of the engine if you guys fix this... we are likely to see future bugs where Chance to proc bonuses are likely to get chances on every single dot... and every single hit of say a spread torp ect. Frankly the way it works is fine... please don't intro this possible can of worms.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
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