Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,907
# 41
12-20-2012, 01:53 PM
I'm afraid some of the proposed fixes would swing too far in the wrong direction. Sticking the automated defense battery on NPCs will revert mines to their previous state- that is, a weapon no one ever uses.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,671
# 42
12-20-2012, 01:57 PM
why would you give high end npc's mine and potentially target able projectile immunity? are npcs capable of complaining now?

as for the dispersal pattern damage reduction, do they currently buff damage or each mine over base? maybe start with the ability not buffing damage at all, and just launching additional base damage mines

also, tricobalt torps are basically harmless, and arguably easier to shoot down because they are so visible. tric mines with a hold are much more likely to hit. the torps should proboly get a damage buff, they are harmless when they hit shields, compared to a tric mine hit.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 43
12-20-2012, 02:04 PM
I would like to add to PaxOttomana's lengthy detail, on two fronts:

  • The damage variance nerf is a definite plus. Ideally, the one-crit-all-crit would be fixed too, but since you've already said it's on the backburner I'll let it slide. Generally toning down the randomness or freak nature of the mines is a very positive direction to head towards.
  • The proposed nerfs, while welcome, are not even remotely close to truly balancing tric mines, and more importantly they miss the crucial factor that's turned them into such a threat.

    When a DPB3 (or even some lower ranks) is laid out, what happens is that the extremely high per-mine damage will first knock out a facing, and the rest of the mines will hit bare hull. The issue is with how dispersal patterns affect tric mines, and any nerf will not have a substantial effect in game unless you as developers start there.

In truth, I wish trics weren't in the game. Silly RNG-type one-shot weapons belong in a mid-90s Final Fantasy or some kind of single-player game, they're terrible for PvP. Luck can be a fun element in a multiplayer setting, but there's a limit; no one enjoys being one-shotted because the RNG gods didn't smile upon thee that day. And in any case, trics are so brutally strong right now that you really don't even need a good crit roll. Just mash your face over DPB3, hit an immobilize and profit.

If you're not willing to remove tricobalt mines from STO, I'd propose one of two major solutions:

  • Remove the interaction between dispersal patterns and tric mines;
  • Nerf the damage per mine between patterns so that extra mines deal 50%, 25% and 10% for DPB1, DPB2, and DPB3 respectively. There's some leeway for numbers here I guess but the idea is that extra tric mines are only minor supplementary damage to the main tric mine laid out.

Myself and my fleetmates are more than willing to demonstrate the issues with trics to any interested devs, and we're in almost complete concurrence about the gravity of the situation.

I would also like to add that the rest of the mines will not be affected by tric nerfs, and that many mine types are very viable as weapons as it stands (chron, tachyon, trannies, maybe quants).

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 44
12-20-2012, 02:48 PM
Just as an FYI while it won't counter high end crits, aux2damp does have stun immunity and a high kinetic resist. It also has a fairly decent cooldown and nice movement bonus. Players may want to keep this in mind w/the photonic shockwave torp changes.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 45
12-20-2012, 03:16 PM
It's nice to see some careful consideration in making these changes, as well as acknowledgement of the issue. I'm not particularly fond of the last two proposals, especially the NPC's receiving a point defense bonus.

I'm curious though, what are the chances that the splash damage from Tricobalt mines could be adjusted to be a danger to the user, as with Tricobalt Torpedoes? Is there a way to prevent the splash damage of the first one from destroying the others? I could be wrong, but it seems like Tricobalt Spread doesn't kill itself but can still hurt the user if they are too close. I haven't used them in a while so I could be mistaken. It would certainly raise the stakes. People would have to plan tactically, rather than just drop and hope for the best.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7
I Dont Know about the Griefers that spawn camp in Kerrat with Trico-Mines/

But Me for One Love the Variability it gives me and My Fleet and Allied Fleeties in other Wise Boring Space STF's after Months And Months of doing this say in CSE MRRML over and Over and Over gets BORING.

yes if you Re-SPec your toon into making the functionality of the tricos boosted.
and Yes if you layout your Ship Consoles bridge officers and Space Doff to help with your timing and probabilities that could help you you CAN have a ball.

Yes i Have A trico-Bomber and i use that on Space STF's i have tried PVP at Kerrat but the delays and timing associated with that build doesn't work well against a seasoned and skilled PVP'er..( the ones that know how to counter an opponents attacks efficiently)

Myself and Fellow Trico-Bombers Have Fun In a Game that we Enjoy.

just have a look at some of the Video's we have done.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw9...w?feature=mhee


you will change / Nerf our Fun but true Players will always find a way to research into how a weapon, Console, BOFF, DOFF or Toon Skill tree can help or Boost what and how they want to play a GAME.

i am in this to Have fun with my friends and fleeties.

If someone is Griefing or trolling gamers "PLEASE GIVE US THE OPTION TO VOTE BOOT"

Finally if you are going to Change / Alter /Nerf the game at least give us a free FREE .
Respec to allow us to use the game that WE PAY FOR.

and yes i am a lifetime subscriber.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 257
# 47
12-20-2012, 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkyss2 View Post
Well, IMO, first solution looks just fine. Altho some ppl wll say that some counters dont work on them, actually they do. I`ve been playin a bit with trics on my sci, did some matches to to see what will happen, and how many kills i will get with "one shot". Well result of kills is rly low - why? Mines are easy to counter, in lot of cases when i tryed to kill some1 with them i failed. Tricobalts where destroyed by; CSV, torp spreads, TBR`s, etc etc. OR, my target was very well prepared to mines and had EPtS + TT on (probably even more resistance than that), OR they just ran off like U - KNOW - WHO. Not to mention enemy`s pets, photonic fleet, and enemy`s players mines as well.

I know my reply will be hardly attacked but IDK,

One crits all crits issue, dunno, DHC`s are also critting like crazy, just take a not how many times escort will "cloak" while firing on you

Cheers
I always killed my target with them all it took was a little timing and a good old scramble/ams and a tractorbeam then a subnuke if they tried any runaways was a 99% chance to kill the other guy lol. Just dropping a mine 1vs1 never really worked on its own real well but if spammed with 2 mines you could overcome the targets defense cool-downs! In large fights they worked real good especially if you were kdf vs feds!

I am glad to see they are finely going to look at these I will no longer be able to easily do a one man infected which was laughable that anyone could do this in the first place!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 257
# 48
12-20-2012, 04:28 PM
Its only a 10% reduction so its not like they are going to make them useless even if they take them down by 50% they will still do 50k damage a hit! but looks like the defenses will work better but i bet i can still one pop people with a 4 mine drop with ams/scramble tb subnuke not that ill do it cause it is cheese!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 165
# 49
12-20-2012, 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehale View Post
It's nice to see some careful consideration in making these changes, as well as acknowledgement of the issue. I'm not particularly fond of the last two proposals, especially the NPC's receiving a point defense bonus.

I'm curious though, what are the chances that the splash damage from Tricobalt mines could be adjusted to be a danger to the user, as with Tricobalt Torpedoes? Is there a way to prevent the splash damage of the first one from destroying the others? I could be wrong, but it seems like Tricobalt Spread doesn't kill itself but can still hurt the user if they are too close. I haven't used them in a while so I could be mistaken. It would certainly raise the stakes. People would have to plan tactically, rather than just drop and hope for the best.
increase the shockwave sphere radius for these mines so that when the first hits, the shockwave destroys OR disables the others for a short time.

put a sphere radius around each mine so that they cannot be within a certain distance of one another. ie: 4 mines are deployed, each mine cannot get within 3km of another one, or 2km. just some distance so even if the first mine hits a player, that player still has a chance to make a decision to defend themselves.

allowing these mines to damage the ship that deployed them would also be great. ( i know that ill get attacked for that one)

as it stands, I can defend decently against one mine that will lower my shields and deal massive hull damage, it is the other mines that I do not have time to react to before they hit. they all hit at once, or within 1 second of each other. as far as I have seen.
Captain Moe
U.S.S. Prometheus
Fleet Multi Vector Advanced Escort
Resistance is futile
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 75
# 50 good thread
12-20-2012, 04:56 PM
Chain crits fix, would fix trics and cannons thus making the game balanced. While making it impossible to kill anyone in the game, who is a seasoned pvper. sad but true.

And if the devs need help (sorry TRH) I am better equipped to show the imbalance of trics. My videos are evident of that. (no offense)

overall conclusion, sorry devs, your still going to get op messages about trics. It was a smart move though to reduce the radius area of dmg. That would stop most chain kills. and would reduce the kind of kill I did in my Vesta vs. Wells vid.
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