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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,035
# 371
12-20-2012, 10:32 PM
I was typing a longer post, but I'm going to go with the TLDR version instead - it's simpler.

The regen rate you see on the passive is modified by the ship's shield modifier.

The bonus it will give after the patch is near equivalent to double that of a Standard Mk XII shield (based off of the numbers being reported, can't really tell without knowing what ships they were in as far as what the shield modifiers were - but going for the middle, it basically works out to double the Standard Mk XII's 133...~260ish).

That's a flat bonus that does not take into account your skills - it's only modified by the ship's shield modifier.

By comparison:

Standard Shield Array Mk XII 133/6s
Standard Shield Array Mk XII [Reg]x3 172.9/6s
Covariant... 100/6s
Covariant [Reg]x3 130/6s
Regenerative... 167/6s
Regenerative [Reg]x3 217.1 /6s
Resilient... 127/6s
Resilient [Reg]x3 165.1/6s

Again, those are base numbers unmodified by skills. Also, it's for the Common version.

So again, consider that ~260ish (modified by your ship's shield modifier) and that's what the passive is adding.

Think about that for a moment...and...realize how even 1,050 per 6 seconds would actually be too powerful in Cryptic's eyes. So, it may be a case that it never actually was doing the 1,050 per second - since it's not a heal in that sense, but a modification of your ship's shield regeneration. Or maybe it was applying the regen that fast to act like a heal. It would also explain why some people may have seen different effects from it. They would have their skills, the shield they're using, the ship's shield modifier, etc, etc, etc.

Fighting a guy with a Cov shield in an Escort without the skills...
Fighting a guy with a Reg shield in a Sci Vessel with the skills...

You're looking at very different regen rates.

For example, looking at what's on my guy's ships at the moment (I don't have it on any of my guys, mind you):

Mirror Assault w/ Aegis: 1181.2
Mirror Recon w/ Jem'Hadar: 1585.2
Mirror Vor'Cha w/ Breen: 1219.4
Mirror Qin w/ Reman Cov Mk XI: 986.5

So yeah, imagine the guy in the Temporal with that 1.45 modifier, sporting Borg shields, and having the skills to boost regen. That guy's shields...yeah, not sure you'd see them budge. The guy in an Escort, goobered skills, and running a Paratrinic... while he'd definitely have been better off with it than without it - it wouldn't be the same as the Temporal guy.

Perhaps Cryptic thought they were being clear with what they were doing - both with the old number and the coming numbers... obviously though, they haven't been clear enough.

Again, looking at my guys as they stand now and would stand if I were to take it (can't on two, won't on one, but plan to on the other):

Mirror Assault would likely go from 131.6/6s to ~391/6s.
Mirror Recon would likely go from 220.2/6s to ~558/6s.
Mirror Vor'cha would likely go from 169.4/6s to ~429/6s.
Mirror Qin would likely go from 111.5/6s to ~328/6s.

Each receiving that ~260 modified by the ship's shield modifier.

Again, this is rough because Cryptic was cryptic about what the new base number would be (or maybe a bunch of us missed the post where they explained: X is the base number, it will be modified by your ship's shield modifier).

It's basically giving my guys somewhere between 250%-300% of what their shield regen originally was.

It definitely makes that 1050 base number look silly whether it was per second or per 6 seconds...

edit: And yes, this is the TLDR version...lol.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin

Last edited by virusdancer; 12-20-2012 at 11:06 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,035
# 372
12-21-2012, 12:05 PM
Yeah, it was like I figured it would be but could not say before the site went down.

1050 vs. 262.5

1/4th what it was.

As in, when they did the original numbers - they goobered with the 4 facing number instead of the one number being applied to all facings.

So there was no "nerf" - whether it was per sec or per six; the number was 4x what it was meant to be. So perhaps it was two bugs, eh?

Would have been much simpler if they had just said that...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3
# 373 Superior Shields
12-21-2012, 12:13 PM
I don't usually chime in on these things, but there was nothing wrong with the heal!!!! I am so tired of players complaing about this stuff. Finally a cruiser can tank like it is supposed to and not be selfish with its heals. Escorts don't have to rely on the cruisers to heal as much and you people still complain!!! Someone goes into a pvp match and can't beat a ship with this ability and suddenly their world is ending and they have to go complain to Cryptic.

Cryptic put it in and in the release notes today they didn't say they were fixing a bug just that they were drastically decreasing it so they did it intentionally when it was first released (You don't think they tested it?). Cryptic - You should do the right thing and put it back the way it was or at least increase to the 500-600 range. 262.5 is NOT superior shield repairing!
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,035
# 374
12-21-2012, 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by andromeda97011 View Post
Cryptic put it in and in the release notes today they didn't say they were fixing a bug just that they were drastically decreasing it so they did it intentionally when it was first released (You don't think they tested it?). Cryptic - You should do the right thing and put it back the way it was or at least increase to the 500-600 range. 262.5 is NOT superior shield repairing!
262.5 is NOT superior shield regeneration?

Really?

It's nearly twice what a standard array has. That's twice. And that's going to be on top of whatever you do have from your shields, modified by skill/ship modifier.

When for most folks they're going to be looking at somewhere between 2-3 times the shield regeneration they had before... that's not superior?

Maybe it's time to accept that there's not really an issue with the way a Cruiser tanks - maybe there's an issue with how you build toons and ships, eh?

I mean, seriously - I can hull tank the tact cube in ISE with my Mirror Vor'cha - never losing aggro no matter how much DPS the Tac guys are pumping out. And that's with crap gear, an imperfect build, and my being far (VERY FAR) from being amongst the skilled players in this game.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 81
# 375
12-21-2012, 12:31 PM
I agree the regen was too high, it made everything but a Hive Onslaught Elite way too easy, but this is ridiculous... I went from almost 1200 to 288... I can barely tell a difference from before I took the passive. I just did a Hive Onslaught Elite in my cruiser and was having to use all my heals for myself instead of for my teammates. Please don't screw over regular players b/c the PVPers, is there not some middle ground with this regen? Is this the way it was originally intended to work? Or did you nerf us b/c of a small group of STO players? I'm seeing people leave STO on more and more frequent basis... Are you trying to break your own game? B/c if you are, you're doing a smashtastic job.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 376
12-21-2012, 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by andromeda97011 View Post
I don't usually chime in on these things, but there was nothing wrong with the heal!!!!
Yes, there was. It basically made even halfway skilled players effectively unkillable by anything except their own stupidity, or coordinated ESTF plasma torpedo fire.

I don't agree with what was done to it (and while Virus' theory about a double bug is plausible, without evidence to support said theory I'm standing by my "it's a neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerf" stance, but that's an argument that's been rehashed to death and is honestly pretty moot at this point), but to claim there was nothing wrong is willful blindness at best.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,035
# 377
12-21-2012, 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverrain79 View Post
I agree the regen was too high, it made everything but a Hive Onslaught Elite way too easy, but this is ridiculous... I went from almost 1200 to 288... I can barely tell a difference from before I took the passive. I just did a Hive Onslaught Elite in my cruiser and was having to use all my heals for myself instead of for my teammates. Please don't screw over regular players b/c the PVPers, is there not some middle ground with this regen? Is this the way it was originally intended to work? Or did you nerf us b/c of a small group of STO players? I'm seeing people leave STO on more and more frequent basis... Are you trying to break your own game? B/c if you are, you're doing a smashtastic job.
Ask yourself this... did people complete HOE without the passive? Yes? Then there's some other issue that you may be facing.

There were more threads about the shield regen from PvE folks than there were from PvP folks... so I'm not sure why you and others are so insistent on blaming PvP folks for this.

The shield passive is not a requirement. It's optional. It's something extra. It's not a you need this or you can't play the game sort of thing.

That people are acting as if this had been there since the game originally launched, Cryptic took it out, and now the game's unplayable... that's just silly.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 378
12-21-2012, 12:52 PM
The funny thing is that people are inadvertantly letting off just how little they understand the game's mechanics in this thread: as virusdancer said, the passive is still at some ~200% - 300% of natural regen. It's effectively a TSS3 triggering every six seconds.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 421
# 379
12-21-2012, 12:53 PM
Nice free heals. Nice free DPS. Neither appears to be an iWin button. Thumbs up so far!

Cryptic spoiled a lot of people, either intentionally (it sells consoles) or through mistakes (like the untested tier 4 passive), so when they actually legitimately try to correct something in a way that's good for the game those same people can't wrap their heads around it.

Just because it isn't overwhelming doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile.
__________________________________________
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,035
# 380
12-21-2012, 01:04 PM
Maybe this will help with some perspective...eh?

Shield Array Mk XII: 133
" " [Reg]: 146.3
" " [Reg]x2: 159.6
" " [Reg]x3: 172.9
" " [Reg]x4: 186.2
" " [Reg]x5: 199.5
" " [Reg]x6: 212.8
" " [Reg]x7: 226.1
" " [Reg]x8: 239.4
" " [Reg]x9: 252.7
" " [Reg]x10: 266.0 <--- close to what it is now
" " [Reg]x11: 279.3
" " [Reg]x12: 292.6
" " [Reg]x13: 305.9
" " [Reg]x14: 319.2
" " [Reg]x15: 332.5
" " [Reg]x16: 345.8
" " [Reg]x17: 359.1
" " [Reg]x18: 372.4
" " [Reg]x19: 385.7
" " [Reg]x20: 399.0
" " [Reg]x21: 412.3
" " [Reg]x22: 425.6
" " [Reg]x23: 438.9
" " [Reg]x24: 452.2
" " [Reg]x25: 465.5
" " [Reg]x26: 478.8
" " [Reg]x27: 492.1
" " [Reg]x28: 505.4
" " [Reg]x29: 518.7
" " [Reg]x30: 532.0
" " [Reg]x31: 545.3
" " [Reg]x32: 558.6
" " [Reg]x33: 571.9
" " [Reg]x34: 585.2
" " [Reg]x35: 598.5
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
" " [Reg]x40: 665.0
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
" " [Reg]x50: 798.0
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
" " [Reg]x60: 931.0
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
" " [Reg]x69: 1050.7 <--- close to what it was before the patch

So before the patch (nerf/bugfix, call it what you want), the T4 Omega Shield Passive was giving you the equivalent additional shield regeneration as if you were sporting a Shield Array Mk XII [Reg]x69...

...after the patch (nerf/bugfix, call it what you want), the T4 Omega Shield Passive is still giving you the equivalent additional shield regeneration as if you were working a Shield Array Mk XII [Reg]x10.

edit: On top of that, it might have been doing it per second instead of per six...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin

Last edited by virusdancer; 12-21-2012 at 01:07 PM.
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