Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,334
# 31
12-20-2012, 08:13 PM
Quote:
I used the battary as an example of something else boosting aux after using epta.

Edit: Just tested again, yep as I thought after using epta you are free to use a max aux preset and get the gains. Not to mention any other power gain there is. So, there really is zero drawback to this.
Okay, I get your point here. In that case, I'm in favor of Cryptic at least changing things to make sure that A2B keeps your Aux low.

Quote:
HE3 is the biggest hull repair in the game. It's over time though, and boosts resists.
True for HE3, but is it still the biggest hull heal, assuming Aux is low? (I know there are currently ways to boost Aux, but I'm just tossing things out with nerfed Aux in mind) Also, what about lower versions? Few Scis run the A2B combo. As such, correct me if I'm wrong, the only ship that can run both HE3 and A2B is the veteran destroyer or the Recluse.

Quote:
You can use HE prior to using Aux2batt if needed.
Alright, I concede this point. However, I don't have the information, but could someone check whether it is actually possible to do this when cycling 2xA2B? Should work with a single A2B, though. Also, running A2B still restricts HE to certain brackets of time in order to get good levels of healing.

Quote:
Aux2Sif isn't out the window you can rotate it w/Aux2batt if you really want it.
I'm kinda going with drunk on this point. If one chooses to mount A2B, cycling it with ATS is going to appreciably reduce your gains from A2B cooldown reduction.

Quote:
Btw I use all 3 Teams regularly on both my sci and my tac and my sci doesn't use aux2batt.
I was going from personal experience here, where I found near-continuous TT to be essential for nearly all my builds, but I could be wrong, I guess.


Argh, I'm going to stay out of the argument. Things did seem to make sense when I started, but I guess I don't have enough information to argue my point. I'll leave this to the big guys now. You all have probably tested things more extensively than I have.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,464
# 32
12-20-2012, 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scurry5 View Post
I was going from personal experience here, where I found near-continuous TT to be essential for nearly all my builds, but I could be wrong, I guess.
Dual TT1 is often recommended for ships that can and can't cloak. It's often extremely recommended as if it should be done automatically that at least a single TT1 be taken.

Three of my guys run a single TT1. Oddly enough, one doesn't need it in the least - but he's the guy I hull tank Tact Cubes with and sit around in Ker'rat waiting for the trics to bounce me out of the Theta clouds so I can move. The other three though, I think I'd pop if somebody sneezed if I could run TT1 when needed.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 33
12-20-2012, 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
This is just a thought I've been having today, and that Technician DOFFs, are rather on the borderline of being OP. They are in that they can reduce so many cool downs for ALL BOFF abilities, at the cost of only one LT. engineer slot, and 3 space DOFF slots. Compare that to say AP DOFFs, which are very powerful, they only affect though, 3 abilities, nothing more, and can even allow for nearly 100% uptime just about on those.
aux2bat was my poor mans attack pattern doffs for awhile. yeah you do get global, yes my dps drain wasent as bad with a full dhc turrent set up, yes i could run omega 1 with rapid fire 3 or omega 3 with rapid fire 2. BUT......the bo cd gets sloppy. not sure how. my cd got out of rotation to about 5 secs off. trust me the money i payed for attack pattern doffs was well bought. also all i need is 2 of thoes and i get to cycle omega 3 delta 1. while the other doffs takes up 3 slots. really wish i could make an aux2bat build work. i mean close to 125 in all systems but aux is very nice. sheild regen is awesome while putting out major dps. but when i needed thoes heals i had no aux for it. aside from my cd's getting out of cycles, this is not a build for pugs. i tryed it on my sci and engy. it could pissibly work on a healer due to eps skill but again, healing is the issue. i would argue attack pattern doffs are op. always have rapid fire 2 going while each cycle i have an attack pattern going. epts is always going back to back. the only slow cycles are, he 1, tss 2, rsp. i can live with that. also my tact inish goes to the team. i never need to use it.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,433
# 34
12-20-2012, 09:00 PM
I admit, my main thought from all this, wasn't so much on the line of being killed with it in PvP or anything, it was more focused on bringing the 3 classes a bit more evenly in line. Both classes have a good chunk of ways each to reduce cool downs, ESPECIALLY tacs. Engineers, not so much.

I'm not sure how to reply though otherwise.

I do understand it's a niche build, and one that really requires a specialized role and cost to do at all.



As a seperate thought:

A bit what-if here...Say they removed the CD reduction effect from A2B, and Technicians gave a flat bonus, BUT at a reduced amount (or a flat number), and only engineering abilities? Would that still feel rather fair? It'd do what I am thinking on, but without going over board.

Say each DOFF reduced cooldowns by 5 seconds, and 3 together would make 15 seconds from all engineering abilities. Now that might seem too much, it's just an example. Or if it was a % still, like 5% from all abilities, so that like Aux to Structural wouldn't change much, but like Aceton Beam might lose a decent chunk of it's timer.

At a total of 30% still, that might be considered OP if it was still guaranteed.

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,464
# 35
12-20-2012, 11:43 PM
Blockade Runner Escort Retrofit

Engineer Captain

Passives
Romulan: +3% Crit, ShieldHealOnCritProc
Omega: +30 Weapon, KineticProc

TT1. CSV1, CRF2, APO3
TS1, THY2, BO3

EPtS1, AtB1
EPtA1, AtB1

HE1

DOFFs: 3x Tech, 2x SDO

D/E/S: Borg

Weapons
Fore: 2x Romulan Plasma DHC, Romulan Plasma DBB, Hyper-Plasma
Aft: Romulan Plasma Turret, Cutting Beam, Omega Torp

Consoles
Eng: Borg, Resonance, Tachyok, Neut
Sci: 0Point, Romulan Part [Pla]
Tac: 4x Plasma Infuser

Devices: SFM, Aux Batt

Why am I posting this? Steam's got the Steam Starter Pack on sale again through Jan 5th - 50% off, so it's $12.49 again...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin

Last edited by virusdancer; 12-20-2012 at 11:51 PM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 544
# 36
12-21-2012, 12:09 AM
I believe the Jem Hadar Attack ship can slot 2 AuxtoBat as well. In fact didn't they invent the practice before the Attack Pattern Doffs came out?
All the talk about losing heals, most teams have dedicated healers and the Bugs don't carry any Aux based heals.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,464
# 37
12-21-2012, 12:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buccaneerdtb View Post
I believe the Jem Hadar Attack ship can slot 2 AuxtoBat as well. In fact didn't they invent the practice before the Attack Pattern Doffs came out?
All the talk about losing heals, most teams have dedicated healers and the Bugs don't carry any Aux based heals.
You could grab two Lt Eng and run with 0 Sci BOFFs.

Cmdr Tac, LCdr Tac, Lt Eng, Lt Eng, Ens Eng...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,628
# 38
12-21-2012, 01:19 PM
p2wsucks and i are talking about 2 different things. hes using a single AtB, and dismissing the downsides, and im talking about the 2 AtB approach.

1 AtB is vastly inferior at cooldown reduction and energy level up time. the only advantage is that you have all your aux for 30 seconds at a time, and none every 10 seconds. as apposed to 0 to 30 aux at all time when you use 2 AtB.

the only global you will get from 1 AtB is with EPtX abilities. everything else will have at least 5 seconds extra to cooldown by comparison, and thats only if you activate it immediately, its bound to be sloppier then that just thanks to ui lag. you also don't have a whole bunch of extra energy all the time, only for 10 seconds. it also becomes a pain in the ass to micro manage, especially wile trying to dog fight, with 2 copeis you can just have it as part of your cycling ability keybind, very little thinking is required, theres no distraction from it.

on my 2 AtB builds, all but the EPtX abilities have their cooldowns reduced twice before i have a chance to use them again, often the 2nd time it overkills the cooldown off completely. even wile brainlessly cycling both copies, its rare that i lose more then a second or too to poorly times and ordered using of abilitys.

1 AtB doesn't even come close to global for a lot of abilities, like TBR, DEM, EWP, VM, RSP, and APO. so sure the downsides are less when you use 1 AtB, but your also better off using 2 copies of those long cooling down abilities if you can
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 39
12-21-2012, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
p2wsucks and i are talking about 2 different things. hes using a single AtB, and dismissing the downsides, and im talking about the 2 AtB approach.

1 AtB is vastly inferior at cooldown reduction and energy level up time. the only advantage is that you have all your aux for 30 seconds at a time, and none every 10 seconds. as apposed to 0 to 30 aux at all time when you use 2 AtB.

the only global you will get from 1 AtB is with EPtX abilities. everything else will have at least 5 seconds extra to cooldown by comparison, and thats only if you activate it immediately, its bound to be sloppier then that just thanks to ui lag. you also don't have a whole bunch of extra energy all the time, only for 10 seconds. it also becomes a pain in the ass to micro manage, especially wile trying to dog fight, with 2 copeis you can just have it as part of your cycling ability keybind, very little thinking is required, theres no distraction from it.

on my 2 AtB builds, all but the EPtX abilities have their cooldowns reduced twice before i have a chance to use them again, often the 2nd time it overkills the cooldown off completely. even wile brainlessly cycling both copies, its rare that i lose more then a second or too to poorly times and ordered using of abilitys.

1 AtB doesn't even come close to global for a lot of abilities, like TBR, DEM, EWP, VM, RSP, and APO. so sure the downsides are less when you use 1 AtB, but your also better off using 2 copies of those long cooling down abilities if you can
There's no aux down time if you time it right and save epta for right after you use aux2batt. 1 aux2batt cycles 2x during the cooldowns of anything over 1 minute cooldown (over ~mid to high 30s seconds really). This means you do have 2x rsp, 2xdem etc since it cycles 2x while they're on cooldown. Also, .7@ 45 second cooldown timer is 31.5, this means you have near 100% uptime on eptx and any other skill w/45 individual cooldown and 30 second shared.

As I mentioned in a post awhile back I don't use keybinds, so maybe that's why I don't have an issue w/it. Since, there are times you can chain something or wait 6-8 seconds for a better option, eg use CVS1 or wait and use CRF3. That's a tactical option I like having and often waiting coincides w/a target's TT or RSP dropping out, so I'd have waited anyway. Other times I prefer to clear spam or hit multiple targets on a strafing run for pressure dps and see who's cracking.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 40
12-21-2012, 01:45 PM
So you don't have the near perfect coverage using a single Aux2Bat that would if you doubled up without using Aux2Bat. All you get is a 100% chance at a 30% cool down reduction on everything, higher power in 3 of 4 systems, and you've increased the possible number of bridge officer abilities at your disposal by virtue of not having to double up.

Maybe one of the other abilities Technicians allow us to add to our builds could be used to fill that gap in defensive or offensive coverage.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
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