Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 81
12-21-2012, 07:18 PM
One crit to rule them all is the biggest problem. That needs to be fixed, then let trics sit for 3 months and see where they are.

In the short term, what if DPB spread out way more? So that the entire batch would be unlikely to hit the same target, or if it did there would be a delay since there's still travel time. After the first one hits you even a half a second is enough to pop an aoe or stomp on the gas until you can manually target the rest of its friends. This would also leave the option for cubes and gates to still be targeted with the entire pattern since they're huge.

Not a perfect solution, but it could lessen the chances of an entire cluster hitting a player.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,793
# 82
12-21-2012, 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomicile View Post
Personally, I find the Jem Attack Ship a bigger issue because it makes lousy PvP'rs seem respectable, marginally decent PvP'rs competative and once exceptional PvP'rs look godly. It's training wheels that scale upward with player skill. It's not available to everyone and those who have it will defend it to the death because they'd never fly anything else.
Nah, JHAS are great ships, I wish I had one. But even a well piloted one, and I've been up against quite a few, won't have the overall spike capacity of DPB3 tric ownage. And a proper team that uses all of the tricks of the trade: confuse, debuffs, disables, holds + DPB trics, would roll the hell out of a team that wasn't using them.

Someone here posted a video earlier where these guys were getting murdered by DPB Tric mines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVKA625XUf4&feature=plcp

It's ridiculous. Look at that, 2 man team just owning a 5 man with Trics.

And those aren't noobs there, you have Jedinikon on there too.

There's no way in hell that a 2 man team of JHAS with pure burst would demolish a 5 man team unless they were the worst players of all time, that had the most utterly fail builds ever as well.


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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 341
# 83
12-21-2012, 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Nah, JHAS are great ships, I wish I had one. But even a well piloted one, and I've been up against quite a few, won't have the overall spike capacity of DPB3 tric ownage. And a proper team that uses all of the tricks of the trade: confuse, debuffs, disables, holds + DPB trics, would roll the hell out of a team that wasn't using them.

Someone here posted a video earlier where these guys were getting murdered by DPB Tric mines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVKA625XUf4&feature=plcp

It's ridiculous. Look at that, 2 man team just owning a 5 man with Trics.

And those aren't noobs there, you have Jedinikon on there too.

There's no way in hell that a 2 man team of JHAS with pure burst would demolish a 5 man team unless they were the worst players of all time, that had the most utterly fail builds ever as well.
Again, it's the DPB Crit Chain that's deadly but unless the player is using the Tippler Console in the Vesta with Trics or you happen to be facing an all-tric premade (which generally is unlikely), there's absolutely no reason a PvPr with any common sense should be hit by those things, especially in a JHAS when they can be out of combat range within 1.5 seconds. It's the arrogant pilot who thinks they can park on their target's arse at close range and unload a fully buffed CRF without any repurcussions.

Videos can be staged and don't provide a reliable concensus.

Last edited by doomicile; 12-21-2012 at 08:04 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,793
# 84
12-21-2012, 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomicile View Post
Again, it's the DPB Crit Chain that's deadly but unless the player is using the Tippler Console in the Vesta with Trics or you happen to be facing an all-tric premade (which generally is unlikely), there's absolutely no reason a PvPr with any common sense should be hit by those things, especially in a JHAS when they can be out of combat range within 1.5 seconds. It's the arrogant pilot who thinks they can park on their target's arse at close range and unload a fully buffed CRF without any repurcussions.

Videos can be staged and don't provide an overall assessment of PvP as a whole.
Of course DPB is the problem. That's why they're going to nerf it. I think Tric mines should be taken out of DPB functionality to what they were before. If you manage to crit someone with 'em, it should be considered a pleasant surprise because you did everything right and the target was too weak. They shouldn't wax anyone with full shields and resists up.


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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 341
# 85
12-21-2012, 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Of course DPB is the problem. That's why they're going to nerf it. I think Tric mines should be taken out of DPB functionality to what they were before. If you manage to crit someone with 'em, it should be considered a pleasant surprise because you did everything right and the target was too weak. They shouldn't wax anyone with full shields and resists up.
Remove them from DPB and they become utterly useless. At least with a Tric Torp, you can launch it just as your target's shields are about to go down. A Tric Mine takes about 5 seconds to deploy and arm.

Either remove a Tric Mine's ability damage shields or remove it's ability to function with DPB. Not both.

The chain crit is the ONLY issue that's outta whack with tric mines and DPB.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 158
# 86
12-21-2012, 10:33 PM
Coming from the PvE side of the game.

Why??

I understand there is an issue with Trics and PvP, but these changes kill any viable STF Tricobalt build. I currently run one toon with a tric build, and I've been saving up my zen for a vesta. I'm not sure if I will buy one, knowing these changes are inbound.

Having to use a Lt Cmd. Tact slot to deploy mines equal to 1.6 times a normal mine is not worth it, much less using a Cmd tact slot on another ship just to get 2 mines worth of dmg.

The true solution has been hit on here, you need to stop the chained crits, that would solve alot of the greif.

If these changes are implemented, then you should also consider reducing the cool-down to 30 seconds.

All these changes will do, is take Tricobalts out of the game again, much like it was the last time they were nerfed. Please just fix the actual problems with DPB, don't nerf the dmg, (and I mean just the chained crits, don't drop tricobalts from DPB again.) I was very disheartened after reading these changes.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,541
# 87
12-21-2012, 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
In the short term, what if DPB spread out way more? So that the entire batch would be unlikely to hit the same target, or if it did there would be a delay since there's still travel time. After the first one hits you even a half a second is enough to pop an aoe or stomp on the gas until you can manually target the rest of its friends. This would also leave the option for cubes and gates to still be targeted with the entire pattern since they're huge.
Dispersal Pattern Beta 2 and 1 actually don't spit the mines out very far. They are close and clustered together, where as Dispersal Pattern Beta 3 splits them up far enough to make them even deadlier because they are so much further apart. Granted it's not like it is with other mines being shot WAY out, it's still far enough to be noticeable.

As far as the proposed changes.. First note:

There is no Dispersal Pattern Alpha 3 player side, Borticus. Just FYI there.

The Proposed change where the dispersal pattern it's self reduces the damage the Tricobalt mines can produce at the base does seem like a good Band-Aid till the Software team can get the actual Crit issue for not just Tric mine + Dispersal Pattern beta (And only Dispersal Pattern Beta) but to all the effected abilities and effects. (Like EWP, for example)

If you are going to give NPC ships a point defense system, it should either have a Reduced Accuracy, or I agree with making it only able to target mines, or at least making Mines the priority target vs non Mines if possible.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 89
# 88
12-22-2012, 12:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
Psssst don't scare away the current team that is double the size of the old pvp team....
New team is two people?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,620
# 89
12-22-2012, 01:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollaf View Post
Coming from the PvE side of the game.

Why??

I understand there is an issue with Trics and PvP, but these changes kill any viable STF Tricobalt build. I currently run one toon with a tric build, and I've been saving up my zen for a vesta. I'm not sure if I will buy one, knowing these changes are inbound.

Having to use a Lt Cmd. Tact slot to deploy mines equal to 1.6 times a normal mine is not worth it, much less using a Cmd tact slot on another ship just to get 2 mines worth of dmg.

The true solution has been hit on here, you need to stop the chained crits, that would solve alot of the greif.

If these changes are implemented, then you should also consider reducing the cool-down to 30 seconds.

All these changes will do, is take Tricobalts out of the game again, much like it was the last time they were nerfed. Please just fix the actual problems with DPB, don't nerf the dmg, (and I mean just the chained crits, don't drop tricobalts from DPB again.) I was very disheartened after reading these changes.
You see though, that's just it.

The fact that anybody can just make a tric build, without the slightest bit of strategy or work, then go into an STF and demolish it all is the whole point.

Trics are acting as little more than an...and I REALLY hate saying this, 'I win' button. You can go into STFs, drop trics, and everything dies, pretty much guaranteed.

That's nothing against you, but it honestly doesn't help players in the long run, if all they see is 'trics = winning'. Then they will apply that logic to other PvE stuff in the game, not really truly trying to learn or improve their gameplay at all, which won't bode well if this game ever gets more difficult PvE stuff (besides just Into the Hive and Hive Onslaught), or if they try and PvP.

If 'Joe Average' can make a tric build and head into PvP, thinking he's all that, and suddenly gets wasted by a premade stomping him into the ground, I REALLY doubt he's gonna be happy, but as we see too often on these forums, 'Joe Average' is gonna whine about being toasted and NOT want his trics nerfed.

Again, nothing on you at all. But if anyone can use trics, that means big-time PvPers can use trics as well.

Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
# 90
12-22-2012, 07:19 AM
This is hardly going to hurt PvE where the enemy moves slowly and has almost no resistance whatsoever.
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