Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 82
# 91
12-23-2012, 01:23 AM
wrong it will significantly wreck pve. know what? i've pvp"d with that setup and i ended up getting killed more than anyone else. why do you guys hafta cry, every () time someone gets a tiny edge??? pvp has a lot more issues than "oooh, lets complain, that guy is op!!!
pvp need some system work not all game item nerfs. i have a great idea, the minute anyone enters pvp, all powers, all consoles, all doffs lock out and all ya got are raw engines, shields, and guns, that should make ya happy.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,441
# 92
12-23-2012, 02:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gojored View Post
wrong it will significantly wreck pve. know what? i've pvp"d with that setup and i ended up getting killed more than anyone else. why do you guys hafta cry, every () time someone gets a tiny edge??? pvp has a lot more issues than "oooh, lets complain, that guy is op!!!
pvp need some system work not all game item nerfs. i have a great idea, the minute anyone enters pvp, all powers, all consoles, all doffs lock out and all ya got are raw engines, shields, and guns, that should make ya happy.
You got killed more because you became the priority target. Nobody likes tric-based setups. That is, assuming you were competent in setting up your survival powers.

And it will significantly wreck PvE? How will changing things so that you can't oneshot NPCs be wrecking it?

If I am wrong, provide a counterpoint. Argue your point properly, or you're just whining.

Last edited by scurry5; 12-23-2012 at 02:38 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 89
# 93
12-23-2012, 03:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scurry5 View Post
You got killed more because you became the priority target. Nobody likes tric-based setups. That is, assuming you were competent in setting up your survival powers.

And it will significantly wreck PvE? How will changing things so that you can't oneshot NPCs be wrecking it?

If I am wrong, provide a counterpoint. Argue your point properly, or you're just whining.
My view one it? Pve was fine when Tricobalts were damn near useless, and it will be fine after the nerf. Seriously, even nerfed the things are better in pve than they were originally, you could always go back to firing one at a time and dropping one tricobalt turd behind your ship when facing the borg.

I know, it might be hard and a little frightning to remember what the other buttons on your tray do, but pve will still be fairly easy for you. I joke of course..sort of.

Seriously though, they are not going to suck as bad as they did when they came into the game originally, and if you can not remember what that was like, lucky you! =)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,441
# 94
12-23-2012, 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paneth48 View Post
My view one it? Pve was fine when Tricobalts were damn near useless, and it will be fine after the nerf. Seriously, even nerfed the things are better in pve than they were originally, you could always go back to firing one at a time and dropping one tricobalt turd behind your ship when facing the borg.

I know, it might be hard and a little frightning to remember what the other buttons on your tray do, but pve will still be fairly easy for you. I joke of course..sort of.

Seriously though, they are not going to suck as bad as they did when they came into the game originally, and if you can not remember what that was like, lucky you! =)
I agree with your point, which is why I asked that poster how he thought nerfing tric mines would wreck PvE.

Or was your post addressed to that person?
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 82
# 95
12-23-2012, 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scurry5 View Post
You got killed more because you became the priority target. Nobody likes tric-based setups. That is, assuming you were competent in setting up your survival powers.

And it will significantly wreck PvE? How will changing things so that you can't oneshot NPCs be wrecking it?

If I am wrong, provide a counterpoint. Argue your point properly, or you're just whining.
If you mean you would like numbers and set-up to be provided in mathematical terms, ok, i'll go with my fleet, and parse and test. And no, i don't one shot cubes and other pve opponents. That only works when they are already down around 40% or better and are weakened by defense de-buffs which i apply. Most of the time when I try to time the release of beta dispersal with trico's the team has already killed the pve opponent, and the trico's explode in empty space. So in the interest of "whining" like YOU pointed out... It depends ultimately upon the personal skills, NOT the equipment. (i don't mind denigrating myself, especially if its to prove my argument through you.) why nerf the tricos and beta disp if it takes skill to use it right, and even then you dont "one-shot" opponents, especially in pvp. Priority target? it was my fleet-mates and we were testing tactics, btw, they have some very good methods of neutralizing the trico beta disp. My point was that you guys cry about anything that seems to be an edge at all in pvp instead of finding a way to defeat it, which my fleet-mates found, (i wasn't the only one using the trico-beta disp in the pvp matches i spoke of.
So, yeah, look for my "intellectually organized" discourse replete with all relevant data, and hopefully that will meet with your approval.
whiningly yours ,
gojored.

Last edited by gojored; 12-23-2012 at 09:30 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 96
12-23-2012, 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gojored View Post
wrong it will significantly wreck pve. know what? i've pvp"d with that setup and i ended up getting killed more than anyone else. why do you guys hafta cry, every () time someone gets a tiny edge??? pvp has a lot more issues than "oooh, lets complain, that guy is op!!!
pvp need some system work not all game item nerfs. i have a great idea, the minute anyone enters pvp, all powers, all consoles, all doffs lock out and all ya got are raw engines, shields, and guns, that should make ya happy.
how will it kill pve? if anything the pve'ers are killing the game. i hate to even pug cure elite with out some nub that says dont pop first cube because we dont have trics. wtf?!?!?! risa has been doing stf and had them tested for gozer. we never had to win an stf with trics. we always pop the first cube and move on. all trics do is make player with underpowered builds think they are awesome while using boarding partys. ive been parsing stf elites and always looking at what tacts are putting out for damage. im really supprised at how bad people really are. people need to get to the core of thier builds and work at it from the ground up. not just say look how aweome i am with 2 tric mines that i spit out every 30 secs.

i even argue with my fleet leader about the pvp side and the pve side. i use my pvp build in stf and get better numbers then people using beta 3 and torps. i just go in with full dhc and turrent load out. only thing i change on my build is going cannon scatter volley with a rapid fire when i do cure.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 97
12-23-2012, 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gojored View Post
My point was that you guys cry about anything that seems to be an edge at all in pvp instead of finding a way to defeat it

lol a tric hit for 200k is an awesome "edge". my jem is what 57k? my oddy is a bit over that. i can fly into the path of trics with full sheilds hp with omega and tt and get insta poped. i doubt im crying due to an "edge". i only cry because people with fail builds try to get into my skill level with op crap so they can become ultimite kirk heroes with toys. they cry when it gets nerfed and they go back to being pro nubs again getting stomped in ques. really all the build advice is on fourms. it would help people from getting rolled over if people took the time to underatdn the build help and not be lazy but infact try to improve.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,750
# 98
12-23-2012, 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
- Granting a Point Defense system to Battleship and Dreadnought NPCs that would deal a tiny amount of damage per pulse (<50 dmg, does not ignore shields, no procs), but pulses very frequently and favors the nearest target.
*** This would be a soft-counter to Mine Spam One-Shots, but would have the side effect of making them nearly immune to High Yield torpedoes. (We also have the option of forcing it to target -only- mines, if necessary.)
If you're seriously considering making mines only usefull against cannon fodder as a viable "solution" why keep mines in the game at all? Mines have a huge opportunity cost, so if you're dropping the gain you may as well just delete them altogether an save everyone the trouble.

You really want to make mines less deadly? Why not release a new updated MK 12 version of the Automated Point Defense console? Its a blue preorder reward but I don't think anyone would care if you released an upgraded version into the fleet or rep systems. Give people a counter to mines and destructable torpedoes but at a steep cost.

Edit: It'd have to be some sort of rapid fire APD console to mitigate dispersal pattern spam, lots of quick hits for relatively low damage... but then it really makes destructible torpedoes useless.

Last edited by skyranger1414; 12-23-2012 at 10:41 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 146
# 99
12-23-2012, 11:06 PM
Just take mines out of the game already. Most people didn't use them even after you made them useful. So of course those people complained about it now that it was good and they didn't want to use it and you are making them worthless again. Bravo.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 100
12-23-2012, 11:11 PM
[quote=borticuscryptic;7172701]

.... due to the fact that these weapons remain susceptible to counter, and come with a very steep cost of opportunity to be used effectively:

- They can be shot down (even accidentally).
- They can be outran.
- They have very lengthy cooldowns.
- Their damage is significantly reduced by shields, and an unshielded hit is statistically unlikely.
- Utilizing a Dispersal Pattern requires up to a Commander-rank Boff Slot.
- Getting the most out of them requires sacrificing Console and/or Doff slots to a dedicated build.

Despite these drawbacks, the amount of feedback we receive on a daily basis has kept the issue on our radar, and under tight scrutiny.

[quote]

Excuse me but WHAT feedback? You mean the whining of the people that get killed by the tricobalt mines? Seriously?

Look at your own list again. The only reason why people get hit by mines is because they aren't watching out for them, they were too busy fighting something else to notice them being dropped or they simply did not have one of the DOZENS of means by which a mine spread can be neutralized.


Quote:
After a recent series of internal tests, we've decided that a few changes are warranted, and will soon be carried out:

The following changes will appear in a future patch to Tribble (probably in early January):

- The damage dealt by Tricobalt Mine Explosions have been reduced by 10% across-the-board.

- The damage variance of Tricobalt Mine Explosions have been reduced from 20% to 5% (this will lead to more predictable damage ? fewer highs, fewer lows)

- The stealth value on Tricobalt Mines has been reduced by approximately 25% (this should allow them to be seen from about 1k further than previous).

We're also still in the process of considering some, or possibly all, of the following changes:

- Scaling the damage down on Dispersal Pattern versions of Tricobalts, so that each individual mine does less damage with the more mines you launch. The total damage of the Dispersal Pattern would be significantly reduced if we took this option, but would still far exceed that of what a single Tricobalt Mine would deal. It would look something like the following:
*** Tricobalt Mines created by Rank 1 of Dispersal Pattern Alpha and Beta reduced to 75% of the damage of a standard Tricobalt Mine (x2 mines = 150% of basic mine)
*** Tricobalt Mines created by Rank 2 of Dispersal Pattern Alpha and Beta reduced to 60% of the damage of a standard Tricobalt Mine (x3 mines = 180% of basic mine)
*** Tricobalt Mines created by Rank 3 of Dispersal Pattern Alpha and Beta reduced to 50% of the damage of a standard Tricobalt Mine (x4 mines = 200% of basic mine)

- Granting a Point Defense system to Battleship and Dreadnought NPCs that would deal a tiny amount of damage per pulse (<50 dmg, does not ignore shields, no procs), but pulses very frequently and favors the nearest target.
*** This would be a soft-counter to Mine Spam One-Shots, but would have the side effect of making them nearly immune to High Yield torpedoes. (We also have the option of forcing it to target -only- mines, if necessary.)

We're particularly interested in hearing feedback on these last two options, as we're still deliberating whether or not they are a necessity, or even a good idea.

After more testing and feedback, we may decide that the overall damage dealt by Tricobalts needs to be reduced even further at some point in the future. If it comes to that, we will also re-evaluate the cooldowns associated with these weapons to ensure that their overall combat viability remains strong.
None of those options make any sense.

Reduce damage? Excuse me, but it takes a FOCUSED build to max out the mine damage. That means captain skillset, equipment and ship setup. Without any of the above the tricobalt mines are junk.

Reduce stealth value? Really? So that NPCs can insta-shoot them the moment they are dropped (and they do) and so players can see them 1km away and still die to them and whine harder?

point defense to npc? Even dumber. That would make all mines useless and very likely all drones/fighters as well since they apparently share the same priority in the AI.

Cooldown increase? What is 1 whole minute not bad enough? You do realize a cannon ship puts out far more damage in 1 minute than a tricobalt does right? And it doesnt have to be dropped in front of a moving enemy ship, doesnt require flying skill to PUT it in its flight path, cant be shot down and more amazingly, doesnt fly super slow.



You want to make tricobalts less of a bang? Here's a suggestion: Tie their damage output to the projectile specialization + subspace decompiler skill.

If only 9 pnts in projectile spec and none in subspace then 50% of current mine damage.

Easy enough, requires the most valuable commodity: skill points AND no one has the right to whine about dying to these mines given their massive current counters PLUS this.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:56 AM.