Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,534
# 1 The K'vort, what should it be?
12-23-2012, 08:07 AM
So in the current Ambassador thread, someone mentioned about the K'vort, and what it might have, so I thought it'd be good to make a thread on it here.

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what it should have however.

Obviously a battlecruiser, with a standard cloak, all that kinda fun stuff, but aside from that, I'd say...let's just discuss.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 945
# 2
12-23-2012, 08:35 AM
I honestly would have thought a k'vort would be more of a heavy BoP

Ideally I would love it to be a flightdeck escort, seeing as the KDF's much awaited ship class/type was usurped by the armitage -.-''...

Or even a battlecloaking flight deck bop. now that would be hilarious..

But seriously i think it (if it every comes to exist) would be a Bop/Raptor maybe even a mix of the 2, a battle cloaking raptor with a univeral boff seat or two, but gimpy shields :p
Your Heavy Graviton Beam deals 26470 (10583) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,043
# 3
12-23-2012, 08:41 AM
As a special weapon, I think it should have the weird torpedo it fired in "Redemption" that seemed to be aimed to damage shields.

This is what the shields on Gowron's ship looked like when they were hit by a disruptor blast:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7...1414h49m42.png
looks pretty normal, there's a green bubble that flashes for a moment.

This is the strange torp one of the K'vorts fired in that scene:
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/805...1414h50m03.png
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6...1414h50m16.png
It's not just a green Photon Torpedo, it's something quite different.

And this is what the BortaS' shields did after they were hit by the torpedo:
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/159...1414h50m28.png
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1...1414h50m32.png
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2...1414h50m34.png
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6...1414h50m37.png
Not so standard any more.
And after that the port shields were reported down both by Data who observed that battle and one of the officers on the Bortas.

So how about a torpedo that does a portion of its damage not as kinetic but as an energy weapon?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,075
# 4
12-23-2012, 08:47 AM
I say no to Big BOP and say yes to original K'vort class design.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,534
# 5
12-23-2012, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
As a special weapon, I think it should have the weird torpedo it fired in "Redemption" that seemed to be aimed to damage shields.

This is what the shields on Gowron's ship looked like when they were hit by a disruptor blast:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7...1414h49m42.png
looks pretty normal, there's a green bubble that flashes for a moment.

This is the strange torp one of the K'vorts fired in that scene:
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/805...1414h50m03.png
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6...1414h50m16.png
It's not just a green Photon Torpedo, it's something quite different.

And this is what the BortaS' shields did after they were hit by the torpedo:
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/159...1414h50m28.png
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1...1414h50m32.png
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2...1414h50m34.png
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6...1414h50m37.png
Not so standard any more.
And after that the port shields were reported down both by Data who observed that battle and one of the officers on the Bortas.

So how about a torpedo that does a portion of its damage not as kinetic but as an energy weapon?
That IS very interesting I admit. Maybe it'd do less kinetic, but have a good amount of disruptor damage done as well?

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 144
# 6
12-23-2012, 10:01 AM
Ultimately I agree with Eldarion. Simply resizing an existing model is an utterly daft and shamefully lazy way to design a new ship. If you're gonna make a K'Vort, create a proper new design.

To be honest the very existence of the K'Vort in fannon is something I regard as an idiot, OCD* solution to a problem that would have been better solved by retconning or flat out ignoring. Just because the TNG effects crew couldn't be arsed (or couldn't afford) to keep scale and/or perspective consistent in their composite shots doesn't mean we have to take that absolutely literally no matter how stupid the explanation you're forced to come up with may be. It's like trying to enforce an in-universe reason why DS9 could actually change size from shot to shot.

So sure, if want a "K'Vort" in the game, go for it. But make it a unique model with a vaguely B'Rel-ish profile, not just a straight up resizing of the B'Rel. And no, resizing with a few token details kitbashed into a different scale does not count as a new design.

*Not equating idiocy with OCD, just saying that in this case they're doubled up.


...All that flame-bait said:

@misterde3: That looks a heck of a lot like an in-game plasma torp. In fact, I remember reading fan speculation years and years ago that the original TSFS B'Rel's torps were actually plasma, based on their own unusual "fuzzy ball of lightning" appearance that was inconsistent with the standard movie-era torp effect (and also the abandoned "stolen Romulan ship" idea that informed the BOP's design).

@elandarksky: If they do just fudge it completely and use a scaled-up B'Rel, then I'd totally agree with you: make 'em Raptors at most. If they make a new design like they should IMO, ten it could be anything from a raptor to a heavy cruiser. As noted above the FVX department was never really big on consistency: they're all over the place from one ep to the next. I'd still leanttoward's Raptor though, since the more high profile BOPs seen in DS9 seemed to be more Raptor sized than B'Rel sized, going by interiors and crew sizes.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,043
# 7
12-23-2012, 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by connectamabob View Post
@misterde3: That looks a heck of a lot like an in-game plasma torp. In fact, I remember reading fan speculation years and years ago that the original TSFS B'Rel's torps were actually plasma, based on their own unusual "fuzzy ball of lightning" appearance that was inconsistent with the standard movie-era torp effect (and also the abandoned "stolen Romulan ship" idea that informed the BOP's design).
Thanks, I apreciate your response and have to say I thought about a lot of that myself over the past few years.
And while I also think the ship in Star Trek 3 (and5) probably used a Plasma Torpedo, there are several key details to be taken into account.
In both Star Trek 3 and 5, there was some kind of "lid" on the launcher that had to be opened before a torpedo was fired.

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/2...2319h42m01.png

Before the torpedo was actually fired, there was some kind of "glowy, sparkly" (sorry, couldn't find any other words to describe it) effect that seemed to indicate that the plasma was concentrated there before it was hurled into space.

http://gndn.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/k6.jpg

The torpedo itself also looks somewhat different:

http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/...rd_torpedo.jpg

Both the lid and the glowing stuff was absent from all Birds of Prey that fired Photon Torpedoes, in Star Trek 6 and 7 and most prominently DS9.

So these are clear counterindicators that this particuler BoP used a Plasma Torpedo.
Given the few instances we've seen the Klingons use these weapons, it seems they were probably abandoned a few years after they probably got them from the Romulans.
I find it very unlikely they were still around in the TNG era.

And while the Plasma Torps in this game might look a bit similar, the effect is actually not correct, at least not for the TNG era this type of weapons they are supposed to represent.

They should actually look like this.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._open_fire.jpg

There are interesting details to consider on this topic:
The energy weapon the Romulans used in "Balance of Terror" was actually only called "Plasma Energy", never actually was the term torpedo attached to it.
Yes this sounds very nitpicky but it is connected to its characteristics.
It also seemed to be without any kind of solid component in TOS.

In the DS9 Episode "Image in the Sand", Odo tells Kira that the Romulans are appearently stockpiling Plasma Torpedoes, which we know look like the image I linked to above.
So they both look different and are being stockpiled even though we know the version from TOS was actually without any hard component and even degraded over time.
Given this I have to say that the Plasma Torpedoes we have in this game are actually the wrong type both in terms of looks and in terms of functionality.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 144
# 8
12-23-2012, 01:02 PM
Was the "lid" actually present in ST III? I though that was added in IV or V.

The Torp emitter in III is also physically different, being a flat plate with some kind of glowing panel or mesh pattern on it, whereas all later BOB's have a more traditional gun-like muzzle.

Hadn't seen those eps of DS9, so I didn't know plasma torps were explicitly seen in the TNG era. Interesting to know.

It is plausible though that there are later, more advanced versions of the STIII type plasma weapon, but for reasons of cost or situational utility they aren't standard fittings. That could be used to explain the odd torpedo you linked earlier, as well as maybe why the in game plasma torps are different: maybe something's changed in the decades between DS9 and STO that makes that class of plasma projectiles more economical or advantageous than they were before.

Might also be possible those are advanced evolutions of the TOS Romulan plasma weapon, but I'll admit I feel that that might be stretching things a bit too much. If not just for for plausibilities sake, I do prefer a more high-profile sense of technological progression. Same reason why I don't like Aztec paneling on pre-movie era Fed ships, or transporters and photon torpedoes in the ENT era. Stuff shouldn't be so homogenous across that kind of time scale. Modern navy ships aren't made of wood planks and don't fire black powder muzzle-loaders, after all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
# 9
12-23-2012, 01:28 PM
As we're getting these ships to "celebrate" "Yesterday's Enterprise", the K'Vort needs to be a Battlecruiser, not a BoP, since in that episode, the K'Vort was referred to as a battlecruiser.

Here's what I posted in the other thread.

K'Vort should be a battlecruiser, not a BoP (Since it was called a Battlecruiser in that episode), and as such should have a BOFF layout similar to the "Free" Bortas. I think that'd work. No battlecloak, but it would have a cloak. Good turning--perhaps Fleet Tor'Kaht levels of base turning. Big crew--less then Fleet Tor'Kaht's 1500 for sure, tho. 1.0 or 1.05 shield modifier, 4/4 weapons, 4 engineering, 1 sci, 4 tac consoles, 3 device slots.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 10
12-23-2012, 01:31 PM
The K'Vort needs to be a the first true escort class Bird of Prey in its class

Hull: 29500
Turn Rate: 18
Impulse Modifier: 0.21
Inertia rating: 70

BOFFS:

Universal CMDR,
Universal LT CMDR,
LT. Sci,
Lt. ENG,
Universal/ TAC Ensign

Weapons: 4x fore 3x AFT

ENG: 3
SCI: 3
TAC: 4

or

ENG: 2
SCI: 3
TAC: 5

Special Ability: Battle Cloak
Bonus Power:+15 weapons power

It's time.
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