Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,444
# 11
12-24-2012, 01:02 AM
Quote:
PvP reputation system


so are you going to make us grind pvp marks then do yet another 20 hour grind / 35 day grind ?

or

can we level that up by simply doing pvp ?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,611
# 12
12-24-2012, 01:03 AM
The main game I've played was actually a pure pvp game but in sto I don't pvp at all.

I play for the items and rewards in sto and so it's natural to pve so people's purple consoles work for me and I get max profit for my time.

In addition to that, having inferior stats is a game I will always lose, not least because I messed up on all my character creations and have no way to respec them...

Yeah you could force us into a repuation system for pvp marks to earn new gear but it won't solve the lack of intrinsic interest for pvp.
How will you prevent one team from queueing up in shuttles or remove their shields to just get over and done with and what happens to pvp when people are through the repuation system, you have to come out with a new one to keep people grinding?

Also is there even a playerbase for it regardlessly of how great you might possibly make it?
http://i.imgur.com/7lZe6A0.jpg
We no longer include the forums, or players in general - tacofangs
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 13
12-24-2012, 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
I didn't say it did But, once you guys start hearing about Season 8, which will be our largest update yet (by far!), you'll start to see what a full team will be able to bring to the game each season going forward.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=

I can't wait for Season 8

But will the bugs be as big as the storycontent? :-P

With the involvement of the devs in the PvP forum and the patch notes PvP gets more attention than ever. The PvP camp even had a spot on the STO front page !!!

I think we will see next year more updates and bugfixes for PvP than ever before.
But I'm not sure if a reputation system with more passives will be a good thing.
If they affect PVE too than you will have a lot of players who will whine that they want the new passives without doing PVP in order to be able to overcome the OP borg
Not to mention that you have another power creep and source of bugs in the game.

If you add more rewards for doing pvp you risk that even more AFK'loosers in teh queues.

Tricky situation xD
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,729
# 14
12-24-2012, 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
I notice the PvP Reputation system being mentioned again, and it concerns me. Because it would have to be presented in a way that it's not able to directly affect PvP, and done in a way that PvErs could completely opt out (for it wouldn't affect PvE as well).

Why? Because we seen in the past that PvErs didn't want to PvP at all, were in it for the marks / emblems and caused people who did want to PvP, to lose diliberately. So this would cause unwanted frustration in the community.

And for a PvP Reputation system that did boost PvP prowless would only cause a greater gap between hardcore and casual (or new) PvPers. Right now, a properly geared ship / character in a veteran's hands already cause a wide enough gap between Hardcore and causal PvPers, so adding more of a gap would only serve to be a negative.

So then what purpose could a PvP reputation then serve if it cannot be used for PvE or PvP? Which makes me hope that Cryptic carefully considers such angles when planning a PvP Reputation system.
I figure cosmetic items-costumes and the like, rather than powers and abilities would be more workable than new Passives or fancy gear. Cosmetics and Titles, little stuff, ways to say "been there, done that, got the shirt/hat/whatever". ANY PvP rep system would be intrinsically different in one regard from the Omega/Romulan system, in that it should only reward winning-you only GET the marks if you or your team win the match, otherwise de-nada.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

Last edited by patrickngo; 12-24-2012 at 01:42 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 15
12-24-2012, 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
I figure cosmetic items-costumes and the like, rather than powers and abilities would be more workable than new Passives or fancy gear. Cosmetics and Titles, little stuff, ways to say "been there, done that, got the shirt/hat/whatever". ANY PvP rep system would be intrinsically different in one regard from the Omega/Romulan system, in that it should only reward winning-you only GET the marks if you or your team win the match, otherwise de-nada.
True, but when it comes to such things, PvErs would also want as well.

And having a system that you only gain by winning would be a major negative, because if you are in a PuG vs a Hardcore group, well you ain't going to win. Which would cause complaints and quitting.

Also, lets not forget how PvErs are using Private queues right now for Dilithium Farming, just to avoid PvP. So a PvP reputation system will not serve as incentive to increase the actual PvP population.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,384
# 16
12-24-2012, 02:23 AM
Just had a thought about this Veteran/newbie issue...

The game can track damage and healing numbers, number of deaths and kills, accolades and number of played matches and so on, right?
So shouldn't it be possible to average those numbers out and compare the resulting PvP index of each player entering a queue and match them up as best as possible, so you likely end up eye to eye with your opponents without seperate queues.
If matching up similar skill levels use a handicap system.

Debuff the Veteran and buff the newbie. This won't generate magical skills for the newbie and he will still have a hard time winning, but at least he should not die AS fast anymore and have the opportunity to learn during a fight.
Blowing up repeatedly in 3 seconds has no educational value, every information on WHY you lost flies by too fast, hence frustration...

The steeper the skill index difference, the higher the handicap for the veteran.
And the difference can be very significant, I remember dueling a high level captain with a low commander and won by a landslight. And I am not a hardcore PvPer, I consider myself just above average...

Make this index account wide so it can't be abused by veterans making new toons with neutral indexes.

Edit: The skill index could also influence the reward, so killing helpless newbs won't generate as much fleetmarks as seasoned veterans.

Last edited by timelord79; 12-24-2012 at 02:27 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,611
# 17
12-24-2012, 02:29 AM
I'd laugh at a pvp reputation system that only gave me pvp marks for winning.

That's exactly why I am doing pve to begin with, the profit is simply bigger...

However the other side of that is of course people abusing it and playing to lose to get it over with as I said. And just doing a reputation system will not fix pvp in itself, only temporaily inflate it while people grind through it.
If you think the afk'ing on stf is bad wait till you see whole fleets show up with no shields and all power to engines in a connie.

I might not earn any pvp marks if I don't play it but you know what neither will pvp'ers if I don't show up.
Thinking I'd be interested in showing up for a fight where I lose time and stf rewards in exchange for helping another person go through his pvp repuation is laughable, not even once.

Either scenario doesn't fix the lack of fun in playing pvp in itself though and even having to talk about paying people to go play pvp goes to show the magnitude of the problems.

/edit

Even if you decided to do generic ships, say iconic ships premade, you'd still face the problem of invalidating people's effort to build their own.
http://i.imgur.com/7lZe6A0.jpg
We no longer include the forums, or players in general - tacofangs

Last edited by vestereng; 12-24-2012 at 02:32 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,176
# 18
12-24-2012, 03:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
I figure cosmetic items-costumes and the like, rather than powers and abilities would be more workable than new Passives or fancy gear. Cosmetics and Titles, little stuff, ways to say "been there, done that, got the shirt/hat/whatever". ANY PvP rep system would be intrinsically different in one regard from the Omega/Romulan system, in that it should only reward winning-you only GET the marks if you or your team win the match, otherwise de-nada.
this

we just need "killwalls"

reward enough in the new PVP reputation would be
- costumes
- titles
- ship costumes/materials
- effects and/or emotes
- accolades

plus, i'm all in for a Foundry driven PVP. Let us do our own maps!

and you also promised Star Base PVP!!! we didn't forget!

Join the premiere Romulan community now!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,463
# 19
12-24-2012, 06:40 AM
A PvP revamp would definately need some sort of ladder and matchmaking system. Have some low-to-reach PvP-rewards which can be obtained by just playing and pugging for some time, as well as rewards for the select few that are actually good at PvP and who have earned those items/costumes/rewards by beating players at their level or expertise.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,502
# 20
12-24-2012, 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
This means more players in the queues, which means more players wanting to see PvP content, which means the greater possibility of us spending developer resources on it.

Worst approach EVER!

What happened to "build it and they will come"?

So you expect me to waist my time playing your crappy PVP to tell you to make more of it which you will see via Dataming and Statistics? ...
how about i tell you right now, i would love to PVP in STO, but yours is crap, make it better, invest some time, you have done nothing for it in 3 YEARS. Just like you have done nothing for exploration, unless something gamebreaking happens you don't touch that stuff.


Sorry, no 10 horses will get me to play your 2 Map PvP game any longer unless something actually interesting happens there.

There are plenty of other games out there and if you don't give me the player vs player experience that scratches that itch sufficiently, then i will just click on Battlefield 3 instead (and i have done so for 200+ hours so far (if you love statistics so much, here are some!). Granted my STO playtime is 3000+ hrs now, but very few of those are PvP hours).



If you can up your PvP queue numbers by financially cheap PR stunts like that boot camp one, good for you, but you won't see me participating, i don't need a boot camp i need fun gameplay.
A PvP Reputation System better comes with some uber epic PvP improvements, not just one new map or whatever and a requirement to play it 5000 times.

The best definition for your PvP i can think of would be: "Your PvP is what i would call a Demo Version, for a Game, that i get on Xbox Live for $10, and is fun for half an hour but you stick around for 5 hours and ask yourself WHY?!"


What you need/should/would be nice of you to do is build a PvP Game that is FUN, and then People will come on their own.
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