Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 167
# 21
12-24-2012, 10:24 AM
"There are plenty of other games out there and if you don't give me the player vs player experience that scratches that itch sufficiently, then i will just click on Battlefield 3 instead (and i have done so for 200+ hours so far (if you love statistics so much, here are some!). Granted my STO playtime is 3000+ hrs now, but very few of those are PvP hours)."



Try Planetside 2, it's free to download, and you're playing with thousands of players on the battlefield instead of Battlefields 64.

Someone mentioned earlier that new players come into pvp against old players who are decked out in the best gear, and they get destroyed. This happens in most mmos, like WoW, Guild Wars 2, etc. People who have been playing longer have the better gear. Guild Wars 2 has structured pvp, where everyone is using preset gear, so everyone basically has the same stats, but they can choose what kind of armor or weapons they want to use. Like one person may want to use a two handed sword with precision and vitality while someone else may want vitality and healing power.

I think STO could do something like this. Add a new form of pvp where you are only allowed to use preset ships with preset stats and abilities, then true skill would come into play; maybe this could be an arena type thing.

Last edited by chk231; 12-24-2012 at 10:29 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 774
# 22
12-24-2012, 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post

SNIP

As a final word, it is without a doubt that we would like to see STO's PvP to be as epic as it's PvE content. The above will help us get there, and once we do, I can't imagine another game that could have as epic PvP as STO would have.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
The rest of this thread has all been said before, and I think there are some good ideas in there, and while I don't PvP in STO, some of these ideas might make it more interesting to me. However, the above section just makes me laugh, I'm sorry, but it does. STO's PvE can be pretty good, some of it might even be epic, some of the 2800 series I think got pretty close. But STO's PvP in anything like its current form will never be epic, IMHO. Part of that is the current system is basically jousting at a fair, with limited numbers and no real injury possible in a match. The other part is I used to play EvE Online, and honestly once you've run through systems throwing rocks at the hunting dogs until finally you're trapped and you swarm those chasing you and manage to blow a ship that is worth more than all of your loses combined, and you sit back, fitting your next ship and waiting for the next time you can fly it like that, well, nothing much else comes close.

But still, maybe come back when you can have two ships hunting each other in a nebula, each questing for the other, battle damage slowly mounting until one gets the drop on the other. Or have two massive fleets colide with each other, destruction all around until one sides surrenders or is totally destroyed. Make it feel like I'm in one of the fleet battles from DS9, or in one of the duels from the movies, and make it count, so if I lose that ship, that at least is it for the match. Then maybe I'll call it epic.
Joined September 2011
Nouveau riche LTS member
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 51
# 23
12-24-2012, 11:44 AM
The main problem I see though is still this one:

There more PVE content Cryptic releases there harder it will get to rescue the PVP system as in PVE affects the balance sheet "again".
Lifetime - Joined 2008 - U.S.S. Kilimanjaro - Inner Circle
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,091
# 24
12-24-2012, 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
True, but when it comes to such things, PvErs would also want as well.

And having a system that you only gain by winning would be a major negative, because if you are in a PuG vs a Hardcore group, well you ain't going to win. Which would cause complaints and quitting.

Also, lets not forget how PvErs are using Private queues right now for Dilithium Farming, just to avoid PvP. So a PvP reputation system will not serve as incentive to increase the actual PvP population.
Check my suggestion again, Separate Team Ques from Pug ques-like they did with shuttles vs. everything else. If your toon is in a Team, it can only que for Team PvP, not PuG. Saves everyone a lot of hassle on both ends that way, and you basically can put a brake on some of the bullying that's sabotaged efforts to improve PvP-basically I'm saying "yes, allow premades-but only against other premades, and allow PuGging, but only against other PuGs".
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

Look into Vanilla PvP if you're tired of the endless pursuit of grind, utterly unbalanced selections of geardo-inspired traits, and generally unbalanced and careless 'development' made mostly to turn this game into a second job.

Last edited by patrickngo; 12-24-2012 at 12:19 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 25
12-24-2012, 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Check my suggestion again, Separate Team Ques from Pug ques-like they did with shuttles vs. everything else. If your toon is in a Team, it can only que for Team PvP, not PuG. Saves everyone a lot of hassle on both ends that way, and you basically can put a brake on some of the bullying that's sabotaged efforts to improve PvP-basically I'm saying "yes, allow premades-but only against other premades, and allow PuGging, but only against other PuGs".
Yes, I saw your post. But this has been brought up many times in the past.

It has been argued by hardcore PvP teams / fleets that doing such a thing would hurt their play, for it would reduce their queues from poping.

Second, it's really not going to stop newb vs hardcore player domination, unless the PvP queues are tiered as to give newbs a chance to aclimate.

Third, even with this PvP Bootcamp, the majority of people still won't know how to PvP, because it's vastly different from PvE. They are use to clicking Emergency Shields, but not knowing how to tank to survive. That's how great the difference is with PvP in STO. So Cryptic needs to balance the field so a newb in a cruiser poping just emergency shields has a chance against a hardcore player in an escort that blows up people in a few seconds.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 26
12-24-2012, 01:31 PM
In my mind, good MMO pvp has the following:

Very little all-encompassing advantage from gear
The ideal is something like Team Fortress 2 -- gear changes what you can do, but, more or less, everyone is on equal ground.

At least one area with large-scale, persistant, shifting goals and territory
Guild Wars 2 WvWvW is a great example of many of the past lessons of MMOs being applied. Taking and controlling territory on a large scale gives pvp a feeling of immersion, context, and consequent that, say, Capture STO pvp maps lack.

More than 2 factions (generally 3)
Two sided pvp battles, on a large scale, generally become more imbalanced over time. Once one side is seen as consistently winning, people generally stop joining on the losing side (because it's less and less enjoyable to just get rolled)
Ideally (and it takes some planning/good design), 3 factions allows an underdog to take the corners and survive while two other factions fight, and for shifting alliances and advantages.

PuG/newbie protection
That is, PuG vs. premade veteran groups... sucks. Organization makes a HUGE difference. A ladder system might help, but it requires a LOT of people to be pvping. You can't solve the problem with a ladder system, because you need some way to get people playing, first.
I don't know how to fix this, other than maybe giving PuGs a way to only match up against other PuGs.


Warhammer Online is a great example of ignoring many of these elements and f'ing up the game completely. It should have 3 factions, but they decided to go with 2. It generally locks gears to tiers, which works great until the end, at which point the last tier covers way too much power variation and newcomers are roflstomped for a long time.


I honestly don't know if STO can really fix these issues. I wish them the best, but with the inability to even manage to flesh out two factions, I have very little hope.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,103
# 27
12-24-2012, 01:35 PM
What if Cryptic just made PvP content like it's PvE content?
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,176
# 28
12-24-2012, 01:40 PM
go learn from Bloodline Champions

balance and sets, consoles? if u don't know how ans when 2 use them, they are worth nothing..

btw . in space, the maps are not the problem. the problem is the lack of purpose and no ladder/team effort..

build it, they will come.
give FED'S the incentive to team up and LEARN. to try harder. reward players for that with extra shinies (costumes, titles, ship materials, unlocks).. as of now, i would not queue into a FED PUG, because even if my ship is set up propoerly, the "team" are 99,99% probability a bunch of PVE noobs which will just give me 3 horrible minutes of humiliation.

This is FAR better on KDF side.

Join the premiere Romulan community now!

Last edited by duaths1; 12-24-2012 at 01:45 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
# 29
12-24-2012, 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
What if Cryptic just made PvP content like it's PvE content?
my perfect pvp map...

must have...

* Crashed Starship
* Water/Ocean
* Pve Hazards
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 30
12-24-2012, 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
What if Cryptic just made PvP content like it's PvE content?
That's pretty much the core of what Territorial PvP supposed to be about.

Open World PvP with PvE objectives that players have to battle other players to accomplish.
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