Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,161
# 301
12-24-2012, 11:33 AM
Don't listen to Roach...he is the Minister of Propaganda of the Evil Empire!
By the way...Merry Christmas to you all, but...are the Klingons godless? Bah...ignorant and barbaric people!
K D F - Killing Disadvantaged Feds
K D F - The evul way to play Sto

I salute Adm. Marcus, a real Starfleet hero! Thanks to his courage we Tac Feds now have an awesome Cruiser, the USS Avenger!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 144
# 302
12-24-2012, 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starwrathforever View Post
Don't listen to Roach...he is the Minister of Propaganda of the Evil Empire!
By the way...Merry Christmas to you all, but...are the Klingons godless? Bah...ignorant and barbaric people!
The main evolution I always saw in the Federation was their tolerance for different cultures.


So, I think you would be a good Klingon. Join us today ;-P
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,161
# 303
12-24-2012, 12:40 PM
Never! It would be an involution!
K D F - Killing Disadvantaged Feds
K D F - The evul way to play Sto

I salute Adm. Marcus, a real Starfleet hero! Thanks to his courage we Tac Feds now have an awesome Cruiser, the USS Avenger!
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 354
# 304
12-25-2012, 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
The only faction that can match (and in some cases out-strip) the KDF in combat technology is the Dominion...
...are we counting the Berman/Braga era in which the deflector dish is your one-stop shop for all things defense- and mass-destruction related, to the point it makes one wonder why the Federation wastes time with phasers and torpedoes and would be better-suited building a ship that has nothing but deflector dishes?

I once made the joke the Federation should build a ship that has a deflector dish for each potential facing (fore, aft, port, starboard, dorsal and ventral) and a warp core launcher, and name it the U.S.S. Braga. It would be the meanest mofo in the galaxy.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 305
12-25-2012, 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
It's up to you. You can drive a design that you like the look of and be less effective with your desired play style, or deal with a ship that you don't like the look of and be more effective.

I absolutely hate the look of the Garumba, but for what it can do, you can't beat it.
Nah, I just got a the steamrunner for my Engie and motted his assualt cruiser :-P

Doing normal quests with the AC is like leveling a healer priest in WoW
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 460
# 306
12-25-2012, 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
Damage is linear while defences use a [1-1/(1+x)] type of model to prevent reducing damage to zero. If resistances stacked in a linear fashion then you could conceivably reach 100% resistance and avoid all damage, regardless of how much an attacker buffed it. That's what you need to keep in mind, they are independent of each other. Attackers deal damage while defenders resist percentages. That's why it doesn't matter how high an attacker buffs their damage, a defender will always take a % of it. The higher the resistances the lower the % taken.

This type of damage mitigation is often favored in game design because it allows a lot of latitude without being limited by hard caps. Granted it gets hit with ridiculous DR at high defensive values and then it becomes a design balancing act as gear inflation takes place. I would even propose the reason we haven't seen ships really go up in power dramatically is an attempt to keep gear progression in check since they already know that defences are already hitting really high percentages if players really decide to go for it.

Edit: I agree that a mere +2 to turning would make cruisers a lot more fun to play and would even add their effectiveness since they could more reliably get to critical spots.

Also, I think its true that in the game's original design all ships did comparable damage and had comparable survivability... they would just go about it in different ways. I don't know WHY that plan was abandoned as it really would make the game more interesting.

All that said I think cruisers suffer the most from having poor pilots. Lets not kid ourselves, for a new player leveling in an escort or sci vessel is HARD. They don't know how to stay alive and deal damage so they gravitate towards cruisers that can easily carry anyone through the PvE levelling content without actually teaching anything about how to play. I know this because that's what I did. It wasn't until I saw someone being effective with a non cruiser that I started to look at HOW to build ships and use them properly. I would say a lot of the people complaining cruisers are drastically underpowered have noticed others playing well and instead of choosing to learn themselves prefer to complain. Perhaps they are a cruiser fan that desperately wants their favorite ships to be above all others in everything, perhaps they simply don't think they should be forced to learn a totally different game than the one they played while pve leveling in a cruiser (a valid complain actually), or maybe they are still in the process of learning and will understand how to get the most out of their ships eventually.

On the other hand if someone's complaint is that the way the ship roles have evolved into high dps/medium survivability, medium dps/high survivability, and High CC/medium survivability is not to their liking and has several flaws as a system... that can be valid. Honestly, at this point I'm not sure how to bring all ships to do equal DPS, while having equal survivability... except maybe making cruisers more like escorts? Lower their defences while adding a few points of turning and maybe switching an eng console to a tac one? Admittedly what I suggest is more or less making fed cruisers into KDF battlecruisers. Do KDF players feel their cruisers are underpowered too?
Okay took me awhile, but I think I get it.

So if my FDC had resistance 50% from consoles and the like and gets hit for 1000 damage it will block 500 hp of damage, but if I get hit for 2000 damage I block 1000 damage and if I got hit for 26,000 damage I'd only take 13,000 damage, blocking the other 13,000.

So an Escort attacking me with say a 100 percent damage bonus is actually dealing less then 50 percent of that bonus to me in damage. So if the escort deals 500 damage originally and with a hundred percent dealt an additional 500 damage I would block 250 from his original base damage and 250 from his bonus damage for 500 in total effectively negating his entire bonus even though his attack bonus is a 100 percent and my resist is only 50% because his bonus is based only on his base damage, while my resist is based his total damage dealt.

I think the simplest way of explaining the advantage of armour stacking is that points of damage blocked scales automatically with increases in damage dealt, but the reverse is not true.

Judeo jutisu, you use thier strength against them.

As for cruisers aside from the Borque or what ever its called, FDC are probably the closest the KDF has to Fed Cruisers and I fly one and honestly I've found I'm alot more survivable in it then my fed escort. How much my hanger has to do with that I don't know, although I have 250 more crew and .1 shield thingy and an extra ensign sci Boff over the Advanced Heavy Cruiser the closest the Feds have to comparing to my Dacoit. I'm a tact commander btw, grade 26. Same turn speed and hull though as the Advanced Heavy Cruiser.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 460
# 307
12-25-2012, 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
...are we counting the Berman/Braga era in which the deflector dish is your one-stop shop for all things defense- and mass-destruction related, to the point it makes one wonder why the Federation wastes time with phasers and torpedoes and would be better-suited building a ship that has nothing but deflector dishes?

I once made the joke the Federation should build a ship that has a deflector dish for each potential facing (fore, aft, port, starboard, dorsal and ventral) and a warp core launcher, and name it the U.S.S. Braga. It would be the meanest mofo in the galaxy.
The Dominion is way more powerful then the Klingons. Think about it the only way the Klingons won against the Dominion was because the Dominion was bottle necked by the worm hole so the vast majority of thier resources were trapped back in Gamma Quadrant. They had to rely on what they snuck through the wormhole, the already wounded Cardassians and later the Breen as well as what they could build in a short matter of time and they still almost won against an alliance of the three most powerful empires of the Alpha/Beta Quaderants, the Romulans, the Federation, and the Klingons. Even then it was because Odo convinced the head female Changeling to sue for peace, even with the fall of Cardassia the Dominion could have retreated to Breen Space and areas of Cardassia space still in thier control and rebuilt thier fleets and troops and used thier abilities to find new suckers, er allies to help out. Think on this we only really saw a bit of the Gamma Quadrant and what the Dominion managed to sneak in past the worm hole and built in a short span of time. We don't know what sort of ships, troops, entire species of being both natural and created beings they had in reserve back in the Gamma Quadrant.

If the Dominion had access to tech that could create stabile artificial wormholes the Klingon Empire would be dust.

To the Alpha and Beta Quadrants the Dominion war was a huge war, to the Dominion the only threat came from a disease cook up by a rogue Agency, its Gamma Qaudrant territory were never at risk and to most member species of the Dominion would have had zero caulties.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,691
# 308
12-25-2012, 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordgyor View Post
To the Alpha and Beta Quadrants the Dominion war was a huge war, to the Dominion the only threat came from a disease cook up by a rogue Agency, its Gamma Qaudrant territory were never at risk and to most member species of the Dominion would have had zero caulties.
You are correct. The superiority of the Dominion is why Section 31 (greatest heroes of the Fedration!!) had to implement an assymetrical solution.

The Dominion ARE the Founders, and they were dying thanks to the disease. As the Founders grew weaker I think its pretty safe to assume their grip on power would quickly dwindle and the Dominion would collapse on itself. The Jem'Hadar are mighty, but even they could not hold the Dominion together as soon as the non engineered members of the Dominion realized the Founders were gone. Of course, you have to ask yourself, would the Jem'Hadar even bother if the Founders are gone? Their primary concern would be freeying themselves from the White rather than hold their former master's territory.

While their Gamma Quadrant holdings were never at risk, Its safe to assume Section 31's plague is the closest the Founders have to come to dying out.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 309
12-26-2012, 03:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
Of course, you have to ask yourself, would the Jem'Hadar even bother if the Founders are gone? Their primary concern would be freeying themselves from the White rather than hold their former master's territory.
Actually based on what I have seen in Canon DS9 involving the Jem'hadar, it is more than likely that they would all commit suicide, having considered themselves failures for not being able to protect their gods/creators from this demise. There were a few episodes in DS9 where you saw whole crews of Jem'hadar kill themselves if a founder died on their watch. Usually the only ones then left were stranded Vorta.

Or they would go on berserk rampages of vengeance in the name of their dead masters. And after they ran out of things to kill, then they would all commit suicide.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 648
# 310
12-26-2012, 05:34 AM
This looks like it's on the way to a successful derail.

Carry on.
Constant exposure to the same opinions leads to continual reinforcement of ideas until eventually, any challenge, no matter what form it takes, is going to be met with a disproportionate sense of outrage. Room for reasoned discussion can no longer occur.

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