Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 861
# 21
12-27-2012, 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shar487a View Post
Nope, STO PVP need not involve groups at all. I have a blast dueling my fleet mates in 1 on 1's, and I personally find it more rewarding when I win solo as opposed to knowing that I got the better of another player because I had help.

Individual players need not be forced into teams for the sole benefit of those that choose team-only game play. Cryptic has already tried to impose this team-only system on the STO player base, and the result are empty, silent PVP queues. Bottom line: the current PVP queue system has collapsed due to lack of attention towards the solo player.

Two years ago, I predicted that the PVP queues would die out without support for the solo player. It seems that my prediction has come to pass.
You're still not getting it? The lack of players isn't due to premades. The "noticeability" of premades in the queues is due to lack of players. There were more premades when the queues were hopping, but you saw them less because more players were queueing up. The game was a lot closer to balanced than it is now, and people weren't sick and tired of the same 2 game modes over and over. The lack of balance and PvP development is what killed the queues.

Again, symptom, not cause.

Arenas and Cap n Hold are not 1v1 situations. They are 5v5 or 8v8 situations, in an MMO, this implies teamwork. It is what the game was designed for. Why do you think powers like Extend Shields and Sci/Tac/Eng Fleet exist? Hint: it ain't just for you.
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,202
# 22
12-27-2012, 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonfl View Post
You're still not getting it? The lack of players isn't due to premades. The "noticeability" of premades in the queues is due to lack of players. There were more premades when the queues were hopping, but you saw them less because more players were queueing up. The game was a lot closer to balanced than it is now, and people weren't sick and tired of the same 2 game modes over and over. The lack of balance and PvP development is what killed the queues.

Again, symptom, not cause.

Arenas and Cap n Hold are not 1v1 situations. They are 5v5 or 8v8 situations, in an MMO, this implies teamwork. It is what the game was designed for. Why do you think powers like Extend Shields and Sci/Tac/Eng Fleet exist? Hint: it ain't just for you.
I contend otherwise. I was happily PVP'ing since STO's launch until the spawn camping by premades in PUG queues convinced me that the current PVP queue system was broken. Everytime we ran into such a group, it was non-stop spawn camping. I play STO PVP to unwind and have fun, but being repeatedly killed at your starbase just didn't make for a good time.

A separate non-teamed PVP queue could have prevented this mess, but we will never know unless Cryptic implements it in game. Until then, please forgive me if I don't accept your explanation for the current failed game format.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 861
# 23
12-27-2012, 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shar487a View Post
I contend otherwise. I was happily PVP'ing since STO's launch until the spawn camping by premades in PUG queues convinced me that the current PVP queue system was broken. Everytime we ran into such a group, it was non-stop spawn camping. I play STO PVP to unwind and have fun, but being repeatedly killed at your starbase just didn't make for a good time.

A separate non-teamed PVP queue could have prevented this mess, but we will never know unless Cryptic implements it in game. Until then, please forgive me if I don't accept your explanation for the current failed game format.
only if you forgive me for thinking you are completely, utterly wrong.
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 24
12-27-2012, 06:29 PM
But a non teamed Que will still end up being a teamed que as people who know each other will play together better than strangers.

The none of the Ques force teaming iether. One can happily do one own thing in iether CnH or arena without being on a team.
Of course the players that pull together will win over the loners.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 12-27-2012 at 06:37 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,074
# 25
12-27-2012, 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shar487a View Post
I contend otherwise. I was happily PVP'ing since STO's launch until the spawn camping by premades in PUG queues convinced me that the current PVP queue system was broken. Everytime we ran into such a group, it was non-stop spawn camping. I play STO PVP to unwind and have fun, but being repeatedly killed at your starbase just didn't make for a good time.

A separate non-teamed PVP queue could have prevented this mess, but we will never know unless Cryptic implements it in game. Until then, please forgive me if I don't accept your explanation for the current failed game format.
oh please, now we are complaining about spawn camping. if you get spawn camped, YOU did something wrong.

1 you didn't leave your damn spawn and fly to the center as soon as the match started

or

2 there is such a skill mismatch, and your just feeding kills to the other team staggered instead of regrouping, that the battle ends up back at your spawn


at that point you get spawn camped because there is no fun to be had at all because of the skill mismatch, and just im trying to end this pathetic match as soon as possible.

it seems the less skill someone has, the more they are DEEPLY effected by getting killed in pvp. if your team gets stomped and ends up being spawn camped, just write this match off as a failing of matchmaking and MOVE ON. don't warp out for christ sake, stay, get killed and get the match over with so everyone is 1 match closer to getting their dil.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,202
# 26
12-27-2012, 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonfl View Post
only if you forgive me for thinking you are completely, utterly wrong.
That's fine, we agree to disagree. I believe in what I see first hand, not conjecture that makes any questionable conclusion.

Regardless of what caused the PVP player base to fade, the result is still clear: the public PVP queues are dead because the current queue model does not meet the average STO player's entertainment needs. OPVP is the only reliable means to set any challenge matches up. There is no individual PVP player support other than private challenges.

Several have already voiced that they would return to PVP is a non-teamed queue is ever created. I promise that I would use such a queue if it ever goes live since it matches my preferred play style. No one will be forced to use it, and it can happily co-exist with the current PVP queues already present since team players will remain with like-minded players. Can you tell that I am sick of getting shoe-horned into matches with premades? Please give me a choice!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,074
# 27
12-27-2012, 07:05 PM
no amount of new que types will fix anything if players continue to suck. bootcamp up, or learn independently and you will realize how silly these ques you want are
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 861
# 28
12-27-2012, 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shar487a View Post
That's fine, we agree to disagree. I believe in what I see first hand, not conjecture that makes any questionable conclusion.

Regardless of what caused the PVP player base to fade, the result is still clear: the public PVP queues are dead because the current queue model does not meet the average STO player's entertainment needs. OPVP is the only reliable means to set any challenge matches up. There is no individual PVP player support other than private challenges.

Several have already voiced that they would return to PVP is a non-teamed queue is ever created. I promise that I would use such a queue if it ever goes live since it matches my preferred play style. No one will be forced to use it, and it can happily co-exist with the current PVP queues already present since team players will remain with like-minded players. Can you tell that I am sick of getting shoe-horned into matches with premades? Please give me a choice!
You are making a huge assumption. My views are not based on conjecture. They are based on nearly 3 years of watching good PvPers leave this game due to lack of Dev attention and balance issues. There have been dozens of deleted "I Quit" threads. Dozens of people asking to 'haz' their stuff. Dozens of people who just disappeared. None of them (good PvPers) did so because they were tired of losing to premades.
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,202
# 29
12-27-2012, 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
no amount of new que types will fix anything if players continue to suck. bootcamp up, or learn independently and you will realize how silly these ques you want are
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonfl View Post
You are making a huge assumption. My views are not based on conjecture. They are based on nearly 3 years of watching good PvPers leave this game due to lack of Dev attention and balance issues. There have been dozens of deleted "I Quit" threads. Dozens of people asking to 'haz' their stuff. Dozens of people who just disappeared. None of them (good PvPers) did so because they were tired of losing to premades.
What I was challenging was why the bulk of the PVP player base faded away. If the number of premades entering the queues did go up, then why did PVP still die out? The only real conclusion that can be drawn is because STO PVP ceased being entertaining for those players. Even if premades did not cause the mass exodus away from PVP, the current PVP format still failed at retaining them. Therefore, if Cryptic wants to revive PVP, then they have to consider other PVP formats besides team-only.

A non-teamed PVP queue is just one of many options. I personally favor persistent territorial conquest where fleets must PVP to retain control of specific space regions with sizable benefits (dilithium mines, bonus fleet marks, exclusive vendors, etc).

No matter what we cover here, staying with the current failed format simply doesn't make sense if we want PVP to move beyond its current niche populace.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 317
# 30
12-27-2012, 08:34 PM
im tired of seeing the same people come and stomp on this subject because they want to keep the status qua ither way if this is implemented or not pvp is going to die the only other option in the short term is to shut it down and reboot it later with a system to start measuring players skill levels that raise and lower from week to week.

at least in the short term something can be done to encourage some players to join pvp that are trying to avoid you pugmade premades and fleet made premades.

and all you guys do is try to stomp the idea off the table because it means less stomps for you.Get over your egos or their will be no pvp in this game.
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