Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,022
# 21
12-29-2012, 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
or: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nebula

hehe... Cat's Eye the central core(IE the easily visible part) is only .2 ly.
That's still very big.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
anyways it's a bit of a moot point. we can't say for sure that small clouds of gas and dust don't exist in space. either way, most of the smaller gas clouds seen in STO aren't actually called Nebula.
Yes we can. It's called gravity. Things that small would either clump together due to gravity, or dissipate due to a lack of it. Yay for physics.

Either way, I'm mostly talking about the skybox Nebulae, but the little ones are terrible too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
Your inner astronomer needs excercise.
Pointing out issues like this one give him plenty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Only thing wrong with Nebulae is inconsitancy with the older zones. Newer zones like the planets in Tau Dewa, all are showing the Azure Nebula from various angles.

But you got to realize, that space isn't really at all black. Even if you hopped into a space ship, you wouldn't see the Milky way until you entered the shadow of some large object (like a planet).

And those famous Hubble Nebulae pictures, literally take hours to develop as it collects light from it.



But if Cryptic really made the background all darkness, then I think it would be pretty boring. So having some nebulae in the background can be a good thing.
I understand that, I'm not asking for complete adherence to realism, I'm not asking for the removal of the Nebulae due to scientific reasons, I'm doing it for storytelling reasons.

You see, the best way to make someone tired of something is to continually expose them to it. Nebulae are supposed to be rare, impressive and fantastic. When they're literally every-freaking-where and you can count on one hand the number of major game locations that do not have random glowing mist everywhere, you are doing it wrong.

Even most importantly, generic star fields can be used to your advantage. Take the DS9 map for example. The skybox is a bunch of very faint stars along with giant pinkish-purple splotch. On lower end computers, the stars disappear completely, leaving behind a massive cloud of blurry fuzz.

If the cloud was much more subdued (You know... like it was on the show?) or missing entirely, and left behind there was a simple, clear star field, you're eyes would be free to look at Deep Space Nine and the Wormhole, which is what you're supposed to be looking at.

On top of all of this, there's tons of crap in outer space that's visually interesting. Use that instead! Binary Stars, Star Clusters, Auroras, comets, newly formed star systems, gas giants, super novae, stars so huge it takes light eight hours for it's own light to travel from one side to the other, even honest to god lightning bolts.

For goodness sake Cryptic! Space is full of insane madness. There's enough stuff in outer space for thousands of video games! Shame on you for ignoring it!
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,219
# 22
12-29-2012, 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
That's still very big.
Not compared to the size of our solar system's Oort cloud! .2ly vs 1.6ly hehe.... Sure the Cat's Eye Nebula would surround all of the planets of the solar system, even Eris, but still... If we were viewing it out the window at a distance of a few light years it'd look like a big colored blob....
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
Yes we can. It's called gravity. Things that small would either clump together due to gravity, or dissipate due to a lack of it. Yay for physics.
Only in a system where there is no continual source for formation of new clouds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
I understand that, I'm not asking for complete adherence to realism, I'm not asking for the removal of the Nebulae due to scientific reasons, I'm doing it for storytelling reasons.

You see, the best way to make someone tired of something is to continually expose them to it. Nebulae are supposed to be rare, impressive and fantastic. When they're literally every-freaking-where and you can count on one hand the number of major game locations that do not have random glowing mist everywhere, you are doing it wrong.

Even most importantly, generic star fields can be used to your advantage. Take the DS9 map for example. The skybox is a bunch of very faint stars along with giant pinkish-purple splotch. On lower end computers, the stars disappear completely, leaving behind a massive cloud of blurry fuzz.

If the cloud was much more subdued (You know... like it was on the show?) or missing entirely, and left behind there was a simple, clear star field, you're eyes would be free to look at Deep Space Nine and the Wormhole, which is what you're supposed to be looking at.

On top of all of this, there's tons of crap in outer space that's visually interesting. Use that instead! Binary Stars, Star Clusters, Auroras, comets, newly formed star systems, gas giants, super novae, stars so huge it takes light eight hours for it's own light to travel from one side to the other, even honest to god lightning bolts.

For goodness sake Cryptic! Space is full of insane madness. There's enough stuff in outer space for thousands of video games! Shame on you for ignoring it!
Now I have this insane urge to add a GIGANTIC star in the Skybox of a foundry map....

Yes, I know. But.... the TV show avoided those for the most part..... They did make up a few interesting theoretical systems fo their own....
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,022
# 23
12-29-2012, 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
Not compared to the size of our solar system's Oort cloud! .2ly vs 1.6ly hehe.... Sure the Cat's Eye Nebula would surround all of the planets of the solar system, even Eris, but still... If we were viewing it out the window at a distance of a few light years it'd look like a big colored blob....
The Oort Cloud is also dark. As in, we cannot see it. I don't get what your point is continually bring it up. And again, I'm referring to the big background nebulae, not the small ones. Though the small ones are horrible too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
Only in a system where there is no continual source for formation of new clouds.
And how, pray tell, would you suggest that occurs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
Yes, I know. But.... the TV show avoided those for the most part..... They did make up a few interesting theoretical systems fo their own....
A: Writers are slackers that continually borrowed from their predecessors.

B: Audiences don't often know the difference.

That shouldn't be an excuse anymore. Give us something original.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,219
# 24
12-29-2012, 08:54 PM
Quote:
And how, pray tell, would you suggest that occurs?
Hehe... that depends entirely on what creates the clouds.

Io's orbit around Jupiter is rather interesting. Io creates a plasma torus in it's orbit.

hehe.... almost sounds like something a Star trek writer would come up with. :p

That's just an example. The point I'm making is that Solar systems are dynamically unstable and there are things that create clouds of dust. Personally I've come to think of the view I see in game as a HUD and the nebulas and other clouds of dust as being "color enhanced" for visibility. It just doesn't work as a literal representation.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,022
# 25
12-30-2012, 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
Hehe... that depends entirely on what creates the clouds.

Io's orbit around Jupiter is rather interesting. Io creates a plasma torus in it's orbit.

hehe.... almost sounds like something a Star trek writer would come up with. :p

That's just an example. The point I'm making is that Solar systems are dynamically unstable and there are things that create clouds of dust. Personally I've come to think of the view I see in game as a HUD and the nebulas and other clouds of dust as being "color enhanced" for visibility. It just doesn't work as a literal representation.
That's the very point I'M making! There's tons of cool stuff in outer space! A volcanically active planetoid or moon spewing clouds of fiery sulfur into the cold unfeeling void would look absolutely kick***! We don't need to fall back on the "random bit of dust" trope every time!

As it stands now, the game looks very same-y. Every map has the same things in it. A planet, a star, glowing bits of dust, and asteroids all in varying amounts.

I mean... mix it up a bit! There can't be that many planets that have been cracked in half!!!
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,020
# 26
12-30-2012, 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
I understand that, I'm not asking for complete adherence to realism, I'm not asking for the removal of the Nebulae due to scientific reasons, I'm doing it for storytelling reasons.

You see, the best way to make someone tired of something is to continually expose them to it. Nebulae are supposed to be rare, impressive and fantastic. When they're literally every-freaking-where and you can count on one hand the number of major game locations that do not have random glowing mist everywhere, you are doing it wrong.

Even most importantly, generic star fields can be used to your advantage. Take the DS9 map for example. The skybox is a bunch of very faint stars along with giant pinkish-purple splotch. On lower end computers, the stars disappear completely, leaving behind a massive cloud of blurry fuzz.

If the cloud was much more subdued (You know... like it was on the show?) or missing entirely, and left behind there was a simple, clear star field, you're eyes would be free to look at Deep Space Nine and the Wormhole, which is what you're supposed to be looking at.

On top of all of this, there's tons of crap in outer space that's visually interesting. Use that instead! Binary Stars, Star Clusters, Auroras, comets, newly formed star systems, gas giants, super novae, stars so huge it takes light eight hours for it's own light to travel from one side to the other, even honest to god lightning bolts.

For goodness sake Cryptic! Space is full of insane madness. There's enough stuff in outer space for thousands of video games! Shame on you for ignoring it!
I can understand, you can see a stark difference between Original STO zones / missions and the new ones.

But don't think Cryptic has any intentions of going through and revamping these places.
NO to ARC!

Season 9.5 = STO's NGE is Here! Welcome to the Grind!

New Crafting = It's not Crafting, is an overblown Reputation System.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,219
# 27
12-30-2012, 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
That's the very point I'M making! There's tons of cool stuff in outer space! A volcanically active planetoid or moon spewing clouds of fiery sulfur into the cold unfeeling void would look absolutely kick***! We don't need to fall back on the "random bit of dust" trope every time!

As it stands now, the game looks very same-y. Every map has the same things in it. A planet, a star, glowing bits of dust, and asteroids all in varying amounts.

I mean... mix it up a bit! There can't be that many planets that have been cracked in half!!!
Hehe, now that I can agree with.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,022
# 28
12-31-2012, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
I can understand, you can see a stark difference between Original STO zones / missions and the new ones.

But don't think Cryptic has any intentions of going through and revamping these places.
They should.

With the team we have now, they could looks so awesome.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 801
# 29
12-31-2012, 12:56 PM
I think you're all missing a very important point. It's not a matter of too much debris or too many nebulae or anything like that. The fact of the matter is that the systems seem exactly like what they are, square blocked maps.

I understand certain restrictions such as ship orientation were put into place for the TV series because of the limitations with studio models, but this is where the game needs to evolve. It's long over do that they finally increase the ascent/descent angles so we don't have to "corkscrew" and they really need to start migrating to larger sized spacial maps. They have shown with the "Adventure zones" that they can build larger maps, well it's time they started taking advantage of that for the system maps as well.

Warp speed is restricted inside solar systems for only extreme emergencies so why not build out the sol system map where you fly by the planets until you get to ESD (transwarp to ESD would still place you directly outside of ESD). Everything is so crammed together in these tiny mostly flat block maps that there is no sense of size and grandeur.

And just for the record and I don't know about anyone else, but I don't buy the whole "we don't have the tech to remove the sector block walls". Sorry but I'm calling bull**** on that one. The real issue is that the game engine isn't powerful enough to have the entire sector map be all one, however there is no reason why the map couldn't be divided into larger sectors...ie beta ursa, zeta, and alpha tranguli be all one continious sector block, and same with federation, klingon, and romulan space.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,219
# 30
12-31-2012, 01:06 PM
Fun fact: there are premade foundry maps for several planets in the solar system that don't get used by many, if any, official missions. The Pluto space map that I used for Sehlat Barbecue(on tribble) is actually NOT a custom map. All I did was throw in a transwarp gateway....
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
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