Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 777
# 21
12-30-2012, 01:33 AM
Romulan Hyper Torpedos have a base damage of ~1.600 which makes it basically the torpedo launcher with the lowest damage in this game. It is therefore understandable, that Cryptic would give it this high firing rate. In fact pure DPS wise the Hyper Torpedo Launcher is inferior to a dual heavy cannon and only gets on par with it if you manage to stack dozens of plasma fires on one target.

Oh and I really wouldn't recommend using any +damage bonus consoles or whatever with it. Pure math: 1.600 + 25%(KHG)/11%(Ferengi Console) does not result in a noticable increase of damage. I tested it and the KHG two-set bonus gave me only +200 kinetic damage. This weapons damage basically stays the same whatever you outfit your ship with.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 22
12-30-2012, 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by assimilatedktar View Post
It's not about "needing the weapon to succeed." The launcher is cool, part of a set and people want to use it. And making it any worse would make it unusable. I had it aft and the Omega launcher fore and returned to my quantums pretty quickly. The projectiles are just too slow and the damage isn't that great either. Nerfing them would make them completely useless.
And if it is decided that it should be nerfed, then you'll have to deal with it. Whether some people want to acknowledge it or not, this game has a PvP aspect, and it's supposed to have a PvP aspect. Hence, the game has to balance by both PvP and PvE standards. Balancing by PvP levels usually results in a workable setup for PvE. . .especially since almost all PvP-oriented builds can do a passable job fighting PvE enemies. The same cannot be said for PvE 'builds'.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 23
12-30-2012, 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eisenw0lf View Post
Romulan Hyper Torpedos have a base damage of ~1.600 which makes it basically the torpedo launcher with the lowest damage in this game. It is therefore understandable, that Cryptic would give it this high firing rate. In fact pure DPS wise the Hyper Torpedo Launcher is inferior to a dual heavy cannon and only gets on par with it if you manage to stack dozens of plasma fires on one target.

Oh and I really wouldn't recommend using any +damage bonus consoles or whatever with it. Pure math: 1.600 + 25%(KHG)/11%(Ferengi Console) does not result in a noticable increase of damage. I tested it and the KHG two-set bonus gave me only +200 kinetic damage. This weapons damage basically stays the same whatever you outfit your ship with.
Which is why it likely won't be nerfed. There's nothing broken about the setup. This whole thread should be classified as flamebait and just removed, because the OP's attempt was obviously to troll/flame and get a rise out of PvPers such as myself. I've indulged myself
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
# 24
12-30-2012, 01:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
I don't play EVE, and I'll play where I feel like playing. This game has a PvP aspect, and it requires more skill than the PvE aspect. Only a completely self-deluded fool would deny that.
I'm glad I've never denied it. Personally I've gotten sick of the lack of PvP development since day one, and I don't feel the need to test my skill against other players in a competition that rewards practically nothing of value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
I did not claim that PvP is the only point to online gaming. There are plenty of accomplished PvPers who do PvE for a change of pace.
Interesting that you haven't counted yourself as one of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
I responded to this thread because I don't take kindly to people trash-talking the PvP community, which is what the OP did. Heaven forfend one of the 'elitist' PvPers come into the thread to fire a few volleys back, right?
Someone "trash talks" the PvP community and the only way you can think of to express yourself is by "trash talking" the PvE community? How noble of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
Oh, and a parting shot to all PvP-hating PvE heroes in this thread who are of the same mind as the OP: You lot do a ton more whining, moaning, and complaining. I see it every time a noticeable change is made. You've whined about dilithium changes (especially the lazy twerps who whined about their Foundry mission exploit being removed), you've whined about starbases, you've whined ad naseum about everything. Kindly keep your ignorant trash talk to yourselves.
See above.

Last edited by fulleatherjacket; 12-30-2012 at 01:47 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 25
12-30-2012, 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulleatherjacket View Post
I'm glad I've never denied it. Personally I've gotten sick of the lack of PvPdevelopment since day one, and I don't feel the need to test my skill against other players in a competition that rewards practically nothing of value.



Interesting that you haven't counted yourself as one of them.



Someone "trash talks" the PvP community and the only way you can think of to express yourself is by "trash talking" the PvE community? How noble of you.



See above.
Yep. I don't see the point of expending brainpower to come up with reasoned arguments supporting why the PvP community is a good thing for this game, because it'll just bounce off 'certain people's' skulls and they'll proceed to post nigh-incomprehensible posts full of more crude insults on the level of 'U MAD, BRO?'

At this point I'm just having fun and indulging in a little mudslinging, before this thread is shut down.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
# 26
12-30-2012, 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
Yep. I don't see the point of expending brainpower to come up with reasoned arguments supporting why the PvP community is a good thing for this game, because it'll just bounce off 'certain people's' skulls and they'll proceed to post nigh-incomprehensible posts full of more crude insults on the level of 'U MAD, BRO?'

At this point I'm just having fun and indulging in a little mudslinging, before this thread is shut down.
I'm actually with you on the need to balance game mechanics. I think that endgame PvE is already too easy, considering it consists of escorts sitting at 9.9km chaining CSV until everything dies after 15 seconds. The reputation systems have compounded that issue. The Omega T4 shield nerf was a step in the right direction, although going from 1000 per second to 250 per 6 seconds was a little too far. 400 per 6 seconds would've been a fair deal.

I also genuinely don't think the hyper torpedo needs a nerf. It's easy to counter, and to make it truly shine in the damage department, you have to specialise in damage and criticals to the point where you have the effectiveness of a wet paper towel in all other non-damage abilities. For me, it's just fun to make things go boom with it. Sometimes I like to have fun.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,086
# 27
12-30-2012, 03:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
I don't play EVE, and I'll play where I feel like playing. This game has a PvP aspect, and it requires more skill than the PvE aspect. Only a completely self-deluded fool would deny that. I did not claim that PvP is the only point to online gaming. There are plenty of accomplished PvPers who do PvE for a change of pace.

I responded to this thread because I don't take kindly to people trash-talking the PvP community, which is what the OP did. Heaven forfend one of the 'elitist' PvPers come into the thread to fire a few volleys back, right?

Oh, and a parting shot to all PvP-hating PvE heroes in this thread who are of the same mind as the OP: You lot do a ton more whining, moaning, and complaining. I see it every time a noticeable change is made. You've whined about dilithium changes (especially the lazy twerps who whined about their Foundry mission exploit being removed), you've whined about starbases, you've whined ad naseum about everything. Kindly keep your ignorant trash talk to yourselves.

A direct attack against the majority of the playerbase is a great way to get your point across. We all should strive to be as skilled as you at forum PvP. We all know it is much more difficult to participate in forum PvP than it is in forum PvE.

Although on your 'skill' comment I must disagree. Because you see, I fail to see any application of true player 'skill' in any MMO based PvP, especially one with heavy P2W influences. I'll get my true PvP 'skill' on in any game designed around pvp that has a mostly balanced playing field to begin with such as a shooter, a MOBA, an RTS, chess, etc.

Is PvP fun and enjoyable? Sure. But if you need to get your ego boost about being 'skilled' from this MMO I feel sorry for ya mate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
And if it is decided that it should be nerfed, then you'll have to deal with it. Whether some people want to acknowledge it or not, this game has a PvP aspect, and it's supposed to have a PvP aspect. Hence, the game has to balance by both PvP and PvE standards. Balancing by PvP levels usually results in a workable setup for PvE. . .especially since almost all PvP-oriented builds can do a passable job fighting PvE enemies. The same cannot be said for PvE 'builds'.

PvE and PvP are completely different environments and cannot be balanced against one another. Anyone with any MMO experience can tell you that. For crying out loud it is the main reason Diablo 3 decided to scrap their deathmatch system.

Faceroll powerful and effective PvE builds explode in seconds in PvP. Dedicated PvP builds put out half the sustained DPS a pure PvE build will. They have conflicting requirements always have and always will.

I want cruiser damage buffed and escort survivability nerfed. That would improve balance of the PvE game and completely FUBAR the PvP element that is already fubared to begin with.

And really, nearly any build can do a 'workable PvE setup' but 'workable' does not mean 'effective'. Really any build can be a 'workable PvP setup' as last I checked you get a prize for PvP win or loose by your logic.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 28
12-30-2012, 05:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by empireofsteve View Post
I did a run earlier today with two oddys my carrier and two defiant. We beat ISE with 7 minutes to spare. Yes it is how your ship is built and you are specced. Do it right and it is easy and yes you need DPs but heals also work great.
you missed my point completely - why can't an all sci or all eng - or a mix of sci/eng ships with no tacs/escorts - complete the timed optional?

You get mixed up by the system and then penalized because you are not tactical? This is where higher damage weapons really help in PvE - the classes such as Sci and Eng that can't get as high DPS as a Tac in an escort

I mean it's got to stupid levels now where an escort properly built cant take constant direct fire from a cube - even a Tac cube - why delivering constand DHC - high DPS!! WTF is that?

Escorts shoult de hit and run and never be alble to take sustained fire from boss level NPC's

This is not Star trek - it's a Space FPS with biggest gun wins. In Star Trek IP crusiers are the backbone of Starfleet - in STO they are just a handicap in alot of PvE.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,154
# 29
12-30-2012, 05:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
you missed my point completely - why can't an all sci or all eng - or a mix of sci/eng ships with no tacs/escorts - complete the timed optional?

You get mixed up by the system and then penalized because you are not tactical? This is where higher damage weapons really help in PvE - the classes such as Sci and Eng that can't get as high DPS as a Tac in an escort

I mean it's got to stupid levels now where an escort properly built cant take constant direct fire from a cube - even a Tac cube - why delivering constand DHC - high DPS!! WTF is that?

Escorts shoult de hit and run and never be alble to take sustained fire from boss level NPC's

This is not Star trek - it's a Space FPS with biggest gun wins. In Star Trek IP crusiers are the backbone of Starfleet - in STO they are just a handicap in alot of PvE.
We once went there with five sci on sci ships and had no problem in completing the optional, even in CSE. So, your argument is invalid. Of course its very easy with an all Tac all escort team, but it is easy with an all sci team too.
Of course that only applies for players who know what to do.

Ah well and dont confuse backbone with ships built to attack. Those are two different things. Escorts are built for battle. Cruiser are for exploration and diplomacy. For large transports. For evacuation. All things escorts suck at.

Last edited by woodwhity; 12-30-2012 at 05:40 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,680
# 30
12-30-2012, 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodwhity View Post
Cruiser are for exploration and diplomacy. For large transports. For evacuation. All things escorts suck at.
All those things we don't have ingame, or that we don't need a ship to do.

That's a bit sad we do'nt have content that would be better to do with a sci or a cruiser ship. AS you said, diplomacy heavy content, or exploration. The few diplomacy in this game, outside Doff, are done with any ship. And the exploration is a lot faster with an escort, because it will either be ground, give x item or kill x.
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