Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 21
12-30-2012, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
He didn't. Your major demand is that Sci team re-activate everything that subnuke removes, a position that Red did not take.

Also, counter =/= completely invalidate.
Look at this way.

Example 1: I hit EPE to make manuver around an enemy when he hits me with Warp Plasma. My ship stalls and makes me vulnerable to attack. I hit hazzard emitters, which not only clears the plasma effect but returns me to the speed that EPE gave me. That is, in effect, returning the buff that was nullified.

Example 2: I fly with my Tac team active, I am hit with Target Shield generator, my shield face drops, and I hit EPS to return the shield face to full and my Tac Team is back in effect. Anthother example of the buff being returned.

Example 3: I am hit with a Boarding Party and one or more of susbsystems are disabled. I hit Eng Team and the all subsystems are returned to normal with whatever buff I had already activated.

Why would it be wrong for Sci Team to return the buffs with remaining times, 2 seconds or 15 seconds?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 22
12-30-2012, 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
go see a doctor for that condition. there shouldn't be any noise in your brain or ear when you read stuff.)
He still can't get through his thick skull that I have ignored him all these months. He just can't fathom why I always refer to him in the third person. Like a psychotic stalker, he wouldn't give up following my threads. He can't get me off of his mind and out of his mouth. The more he talks to me or about me, more insults will be hurled his way. Until he learns to stay away from me, he will be annoyed.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,166
# 23
12-30-2012, 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Look at this way.

Example 1: I hit EPE to make manuver around an enemy when he hits me with Warp Plasma. My ship stalls and makes me vulnerable to attack. I hit hazzard emitters, which not only clears the plasma effect but returns me to the speed that EPE gave me. That is, in effect, returning the buff that was nullified.

Example 2: I fly with my Tac team active, I am hit with Target Shield generator, my shield face drops, and I hit EPS to return the shield face to full and my Tac Team is back in effect. Anthother example of the buff being returned.

Example 3: I am hit with a Boarding Party and one or more of subsystems are disabled. I hit Eng Team and the all subsystems are returned to normal with whatever buff I had already activated.

Why would it be wrong for Sci Team to return the buffs with remaining times, 2 seconds or 15 seconds?

Those arguments are invalid. Because the effect of the buffs are not nullified. The buff itself stays active, but your overall perfomance goes down. So when you clear the debuff, the buff isnt reactivated, because it was never nullified.

1. EptE is still working. You are moving faster than a ship without it, even though both suffer from EWP.

2. TT is still working, the other shield facings are still redistributing when hit. Its just your (lets say you get hit with BTS from aft) aft shield emitter goes offline. It comes online when you use EptS. But TT is still working even with one shield facing deactivated.


3.The Buffs still work. If the subsystems are offline, its still active, but cant buff, since the subsystem is offline. So of course, with the subsystem coming online the buffs do their work like nothing happened. But they werent canceled.


Subnuke doesnt attack the Subsystems or their abilities (like EWP slowing you down instead taking your engines offline), it attacks the buffs itself and there is no work to reactivate them while they have CD. That is the grand power of it. If you could just nullify that power with ST, it becomes worthless. A Sci nerf nobody understanding the game mechanics would want.

Last edited by woodwhity; 12-30-2012 at 08:48 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 354
# 24
12-30-2012, 09:31 AM
There is a counter to subnuke's power cooldown nerf, it's called photonic officer.

That, and you know, not putting all your eggs in one basket by blowing every buff on your hotbar and making yourself a giant target for a subnuke blast.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 887
# 25
12-30-2012, 11:13 AM
Science Team and Photonic Officer are fine counters to Subnuke.

You do realize subnucleonic beam has a 2 minute cooldown right? For that long of a wait I would hope that it does something!
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 26
12-30-2012, 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Why would it be wrong for Sci Team to return the buffs with remaining times, 2 seconds or 15 seconds?
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodwhity View Post
Subnuke doesnt attack the Subsystems or their abilities (like EWP slowing you down instead taking your engines offline), it attacks the buffs itself and there is no work to reactivate them while they have CD. That is the grand power of it. If you could just nullify that power with ST, it becomes worthless.
Ding ding ding.

You're comparing radically different types of powers, and then complaining when counters for them work in different ways. Apples, say hello to oranges.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 27
12-30-2012, 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Look at this way.

Example 1: I hit EPE to make manuver around an enemy when he hits me with Warp Plasma. My ship stalls and makes me vulnerable to attack. I hit hazzard emitters, which not only clears the plasma effect but returns me to the speed that EPE gave me. That is, in effect, returning the buff that was nullified.

Example 2: I fly with my Tac team active, I am hit with Target Shield generator, my shield face drops, and I hit EPS to return the shield face to full and my Tac Team is back in effect. Anthother example of the buff being returned.

Example 3: I am hit with a Boarding Party and one or more of susbsystems are disabled. I hit Eng Team and the all subsystems are returned to normal with whatever buff I had already activated.

Why would it be wrong for Sci Team to return the buffs with remaining times, 2 seconds or 15 seconds?
All the things you listed just return you to normal status. They don't give you any buffs/debuffs back. They also don't disable any existing buffs you currently have.

You get hit by warp plasma, HE returns you to normal status. You just remove the debuff nothing else. EWP doesn't remove any existing buffs. It just snares you.

Tac team just redistributes shields, BUT it only works if the system is already online. When target shields hits, it attacks your subsystem, and removes that facing's ability to operate. So the TT (still in effect btw), is being blocked, NOTHING MORE. The TT has not been removed at any point, and when you remove the block, the TT can do it's job once more. However you will find if you get attacked on a different facing, the TT will still work for that facing. Just not the one hit by SST. However the SST doesn't remove your TT at any point in time. It just works around it.

Boarding party for starters, I don't even want to know how you get hit by that. Secondly, Eng team only restores subystems, it doesn't remove the boarding party, so that's not a counter in any sense of the word. Lastly, it doesn't give you back any of the original things the boarding party removed. That's just inaccurate on your part. Also BP doesn't remove any existing buffs. Like SST, it works around them.

SNB REMOVES ALL EXISTING BUFFS. That is the largest difference between it and ANY examples you have listed so far. None of them remove any active/existing buffs. SNB does. It doesn't target your ship, it targets your buffs and their CDs. It essentially wipes your slate clean. You will notice that while under SNBs effect, you can still activate buffs though. They aren't removed. And removing the debuff of SNB just removes the timers and the SNB effect. You won't restore any buffs because there aren't any to restore.

Besides, you are trying to compare a Captain ability to a BOff ability when it comes to countering. THAT is where the apples and oranges comes into effect. Captain abilities are much stronger than regular BOff abilities, so expecting the same effect when countering the two is just foolish on your part.

There are no BOff abilities that I know of that actively remove any buffs from the target. SNB is one of the few things that do (captain ability) along with Victory is Life (the jem space set's 3rd ability).
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.

Last edited by hereticknight085; 12-30-2012 at 04:44 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 28
12-30-2012, 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Why would it be wrong for Sci Team to return the buffs with remaining times, 2 seconds or 15 seconds?

I assume then that the cooldown time on Subnucleonic Beam would be reduced to 30 seconds like several other easily-cleared debuffs.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 29
12-30-2012, 11:50 PM
So what? Its the only ability that attack subsystems. You still didn't say why that Science team shouldn't restore the buffs.

Those other examples are abilities that attack speed or shielding. Just because the buff is showing don't mean its doing anything. I was comparing the feel. TT don't do anything with the missing shield face dissabled, and we are not talking about a 5 on 1 situation. You can not hit a person from several sides by yourself.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 30
12-30-2012, 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodwhity View Post
Those arguments are invalid. Because the effect of the buffs are not nullified. The buff itself stays active, but your overall perfomance goes down. So when you clear the debuff, the buff isnt reactivated, because it was never nullified.

1. EptE is still working. You are moving faster than a ship without it, even though both suffer from EWP.

2. TT is still working, the other shield facings are still redistributing when hit. Its just your (lets say you get hit with BTS from aft) aft shield emitter goes offline. It comes online when you use EptS. But TT is still working even with one shield facing deactivated.


3.The Buffs still work. If the subsystems are offline, its still active, but cant buff, since the subsystem is offline. So of course, with the subsystem coming online the buffs do their work like nothing happened. But they werent canceled.


Subnuke doesnt attack the Subsystems or their abilities (like EWP slowing you down instead taking your engines offline), it attacks the buffs itself and there is no work to reactivate them while they have CD. That is the grand power of it. If you could just nullify that power with ST, it becomes worthless. A Sci nerf nobody understanding the game mechanics would want.
You still didn't say why that Science team shouldn't restore the buffs.

Those other examples are abilities that attack speed , subsystems or shielding. Just because the buff is showing don't mean its doing anything. I was comparing the feel. TT don't do anything with the missing shield face dissabled, and we are not talking about a 5 on 1 situation. You can not hit a person from several sides by yourself.
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