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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 518
# 21
12-25-2012, 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
Shipboard troops or troops serving on a vessel are called Marines

Macos are marines (low rent ones)
Not necessarily. Until the 90s the Chinese Navy was considered part of the Army. The largest amphibious assault in world history was conducted by Allied troops including the US Army, which- at the time- had it's own boats and landing craft. The US Marines were busy elsewhere. The US participation in the invasion of Japan would have consisted of US Army divisions.

Major Hayes referred to training at an Army post, which would subtly identify them as soldiers. In addition, all of the named characters are referred to by ranks used by armies- they don't have any Lance Corporals or Gunnery Sergeants, ranks unique to marines.

Given that many marines have rich histories it is likely they would have also had distinctive uniform items like the EGA (US Marines) or the green beret (Royal Marines). The MACO insignia is more like an army unit patch- and positioned that way on the uniform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
The Royal marines were the first fully uniformed disciplined marine force

The USMC is not the only kind of Marine
True, the Royal Marines were the first military units to be identified as Marines- or originally a "Maritime Regiment Afoot." If you mean that not all Marines have the global reach and diverse capabilities of the US Marine Corps, but all are amphibious infantry, that's true.

Is still think MACOs are soldiers. But, more to the point, the OP suggested having the option of enlisted ranks and MACO ranks. I would agree, at least for our BOFFs.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 801
# 22
12-26-2012, 01:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voyagerfan9751 View Post
This. People need to get over the idea that Starfleet is a military organization just because its rank system mirrors the Navy. it is not, Gene Roddenberry even said Starfleet is an exploratory unit, not a Military Organization.
One of Roddenberry's greatest mistakes was that he never really definitively laid out all the different parts of the "United Federation of Planets" and Starfleet. Please excuse me for not remembering exactly what episodes for the difference series, but there are references throughout the canon ST series/movies that somewhat fill in the blanks. For example Each Planet in the Federation can have it's own defense force, so if you look at the M.A.C.O. from that view point it gets alot easier to figure out.

Structure:

|----|-----United Federation of Planets
| |
| |-----M.A.C.O--------|
| |
|----------Starfleet--------|--------|
|
|-------Civilian



1) United Federation of Planets: Top of the whole "Command" Chain

2) M.A.C.O: Earth's Defense Force. A separate organization within the Federation specific to Earth. deploy-able to Starfleet when the need arises, but ultimately answer to the Federation.

3)Starfleet: The exploration organization of Starfleet. Ultimately answer to the Federation Council.

4) Civilians: Anything from Cargo Vessels to Research facilities/vessels. For example the Raven that the Hanson's used to study the borg.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 383
# 23 Ranks in the Tailor
12-26-2012, 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drowrulesupreme View Post
Crewman Enrique Muniz from DS9
Yeoman Janice Rand from TOS (later Master Chief Petty Officer Rand)
Petty Officer First Class Strath (ST:VI - The Undiscovered Country)
Petty Officer Zim Brott from DS9
Chief Petty Officer Sergey Rozhenko from TNG
All of the above are enlisted ranks (with O'Brien being Senior Chief Petty Officer) whether their rank pins were seen or not (as given in dialogue).
Some of this can actually be done with the rank insignia we already have in game. Crewman would simply be no pips, and we do have a Chief insignia (one "half" pip). We also have Lieutenant Junior Grade as well (one and a half pips).

Personally, I would like to see rank insignia for Commodore. It's canon, but hasn't been mentioned since TOS. I'm OK with the Rear Admiral Lower/Upper Half that we have, since that's what the U.S. Navy currently uses. I just read the Wikpedia article on Commodore, and it sounds to me like it's essentially equivalent to "Fleet Captain", more of a title than a rank.

Finally, it would be cool if we could choose where to display rank insignia -- sleeve braid (TOS), collar pips (TNG/DS9/VOY), chest pips (ENT, 2409), or epaulets (ENT mirror). Or any combination thereof.
Saving the universe ... one game at a time.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 24
12-26-2012, 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bberge1701 View Post
Personally, I would like to see rank insignia for Commodore. It's canon, but hasn't been mentioned since TOS. I'm OK with the Rear Admiral Lower/Upper Half that we have, since that's what the U.S. Navy currently uses. I just read the Wikpedia article on Commodore, and it sounds to me like it's essentially equivalent to "Fleet Captain", more of a title than a rank.
Commodore, at least from a US Navy Perspective, IS Rear Admiral Lower Half. It was changed in the US Navy at 1985, I believe (assuming I am remembering the date correctly). the only reason I know of that it is never mentioned past TOS is, since the ranks reflected real life US Navy ranks, Starting with TNG on, the rank of Commodore was replaced with Rear Admiral Lower Half.

Bottomline, it is a defunt and old rank, it no longer exists. If you want to call your Rear Admiral Lower half a Commodore, that is your choice, I am not going to argue about that. But the rank insignia would be the same as it is essentially a one star Admiral.

And again, for the games story purposes, the rank would have been out of rotation for 150 to 200 years.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 383
# 25
12-26-2012, 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voyagerfan9751 View Post
If you want to call your Rear Admiral Lower half a Commodore, that is your choice, I am not going to argue about that. But the rank insignia would be the same as it is essentially a one star Admiral.
Hmm, now that's a thought. How about a title of "Commodore" that gets unlocked when you reach Rear Admiral Lower Half?
Saving the universe ... one game at a time.
Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 335
# 26
12-31-2012, 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voyagerfan9751 View Post
Commodore, at least from a US Navy Perspective, IS Rear Admiral Lower Half. It was changed in the US Navy at 1985, I believe (assuming I am remembering the date correctly). the only reason I know of that it is never mentioned past TOS is, since the ranks reflected real life US Navy ranks, Starting with TNG on, the rank of Commodore was replaced with Rear Admiral Lower Half.

Bottomline, it is a defunt and old rank, it no longer exists. If you want to call your Rear Admiral Lower half a Commodore, that is your choice, I am not going to argue about that. But the rank insignia would be the same as it is essentially a one star Admiral.

And again, for the games story purposes, the rank would have been out of rotation for 150 to 200 years.
actually this is not true. I was in the Navy for 11 years and during my last few years my ship answered to a Commodore. His actual rank was Captain but because he had a minesweeper fleet answering to him he was titled Commodore. Minesweeper CO's were usually Commanders.
As it stands the Commodore is a positional title and no longer a rank.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 804
# 27
12-31-2012, 08:10 PM
In Enterprise, the rank of Commodore was in use. Commodore Forrest was overseeing the Warp Project that Archer ended up flying to prove to the Vulcans that humans were worthy of keeping their warp development program. He had one pip on his flag uniform.

See Maxewell Forrest at Memory Alpha
I personally want a Star Trek game that is actually Star Trek. On a qualitative level that could be a lot of different things for a lot of different people. But on a quantitative level, if the developers were to watch star trek and make the game like what they see, then at least it will be a shot in the right direction, as far as I am concerned.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 28
12-31-2012, 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post
In Enterprise, the rank of Commodore was in use. Commodore Forrest was overseeing the Warp Project that Archer ended up flying to prove to the Vulcans that humans were worthy of keeping their warp development program. He had one pip on his flag uniform.

See Maxewell Forrest at Memory Alpha
You do realize that Enterprise pre-dates TOS. So most likely the writers used Commodore because it would make sense to have to in use in Starfleet up to past the TOS era.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 89
# 29
12-31-2012, 09:16 PM
okay just read a lot of bull**** to be honest. let me say this. Maco are consider the marines they have a command ranks unlike starfleet they are actually ranked lt commander captain major. don't believe be read it on st wiki and go watch st: enterprise. after the formation of the federation they were put into something call starfleet marines still under the same thing ranks. if you wish i will more then happy to go back and get it. thing is there's a thing. the game consider us to be all starfleet captains.. there is no real reason for the devs to put any other rank outside the rank they have now. unless they allow you to choose which path to follow captain of a starship or commander of a maco/marine squad
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 888
# 30
12-31-2012, 11:36 PM
While premises do change, we were told some time back that Commodore would come to us by way of the Fleet System. I'm still waiting, of course.
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