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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,286
Last Gedankenlab was about ques and touched on some deeply felt and rather harshly debated issues.

This time, we're going to look at another controversial discussion from the point of view of implementation-one far more likely to eventually (in some form) occur in the world of STO.

a possible PvP "Reputation" system similar in execution to the Omega (STF) and Romulan (Pokemon) reputation systems.

The purpose, as last time, is to dig in, find the flaws in the concept, discuss counters to those flaws, and evaluate whether or not the whole effort is worth it.

Let's go...

Hypothetical PvP Reputation system: Version .001

Availability: Rank 25 (Fed or KDF) all Player Characters

Currency: PvP marks, Commodities, Skill Points

Rewards: PvP Marks awarded for specific PvP activities, with additional rewards for win/loss as follows..

a) 5 PvP marks for each instance in a War zone (Ker'rat, N'Vak, etc.)
b)15 PvP marks for each victory in Arena(team win)5 PvP marks for each Loss
c)15 PvP marks for each victory in Capture&Hold(team win)5 PvP marks for each loss
d) all marks totals double during certain assigned hours of the day ("Event Hours")

Tier 1: Bekk/Ensign
45 PvP marks (Split 3 ways)
90 Skill/expertise points
10 Shields battery
10 weapons battery
10 Large Hypo
a) Passive ability (Choose)
i)+10% shield strength buff for 5 seconds (proc chance 1.5%) to personal shields
ii) +10% resistance to holds (ground), Proc chance 2.5%

b)Costume item (faction appropriate)

Tier 2: Sargeant/LT
140 PvP marks (split 6 ways)
180 skill/expertise points (total)
30 Engine Battery
30 Large Shield Charge
20 Minor Regenerator
10 Minor Components

i) +10% to Shield regen (Proc 1.5%) vs. (choose) Phaser, Disruptor, Tetryon, Polaron (only one energy type)
ii) 1.5% chance to bypass shields with faction-specific weapons (aka Phaser/Disruptor) in space combat

b)Faction Specific costume item

Tier 3: Captain/Lt.
560 PvP marks
730 skill/expertise points
60 Minor Regenerator
60 Large Hypo
40 Minor Components
30 Large Power cell
20 Med. hypo

a) Passives
i)+5% HP regeneration rate (3% proc) when in combat
ii)+5% Damage using faction weapons (Phaser/Disruptor) in ground combat

b)Faction specific costume item
c)PvP Store (15000 Dil. and 225 PvP points to unlock) "Advanced Combat Items:Ground" (Mk VIII to Mk X) Purple quality gear (Account unlock)

Tier 4: Major/Commander
6800 PvP marks
2920 skill/expertise
60 Major components
120 minor components
10 Critical components
120 Shields batteries
120 Engine Batteries
120 Weapons Batteries
30 MkI Torpedo Launchers
30 MkI Phaser/Disruptor
5 Tactical Duty Officers(white quality)
5 Science Duty Officers(white quality)

i)"Free Action"-2.5% chance to ignore the effects of Disable/Holds from tractor beams, warp plasma, subsystem targeting, boarding parties, etc. (Proc)

ii)"Certain Strike" 2.5% chance to inflict random system disable with energy weapons fire(Proc) per subsystem targeting (but not requiring it, ability should stack WITH SST)

b)Costume Item (faction appropriate)

c)PvP Store: Space, Purple quality equipment MkVIII to MKXI (ACCx3, or ACCx2+CritH), Ground store opens MkXI equipment.
d)Select 1 Purple quality Duty officer (from a list)
e) Faction appropriate costume item

Tier 5: Dahar Master/Commodore
27200 PvP marks
116800 Expertise/skill points
10 Critical regenerators
120 Major Regenerators
240 Minor Regenerators
240 Large Hypo
240 Large Power cell
240 Large Shield Charge
10 Critical Regenerators

a)Costume Unlock: Dahar Master Greatcoat/Starfleet Commodore Long Coat
b)Select 2 Purple quality Duty officers
c)select 1 purple quality Bridge officer
d)PvP Store: Elite (mkXII purple items both ground, and space)

The costs for the higher tiers are INTENDED to be expensive and difficult to obtain-at 15 marks for a win, 5 for a loss, and that many required, a LOT of matches need to be played to get anywhere in this system.

The 'costume items' should be both faction appropriate and...Unique. When a toon steps into Drozana sporting a Greatcoat, it should be something you can't just go buy with Lobi or zen, or ec or whatever-it's a mark that THIS player not only PvP's, but is GOOD at it.

The items in the "PvP store" likewise are things that work better in PvP than they do in, say, PvE-the focus on bonus accuracy isn't necessary against mud-slow Borg or Tholian opponents driven by the AI, but IS of use fighting other PLAYERS. I deliberately focused on things that PvPers might buy-batteries, charges, hypos, from tiers 1 through 3, with STF gear (regenerators, starship components sets) for tiers 4 and 5 on the assumption that by opening the system at level 25, players would want to advance their lowbie toons through the first 3 levels in order to afford the higher levels of rep (and because the passives, while relatively weak, are pretty powerful all told. Not as powerful as the un-rebalanced Omega T4 shields, but still...) The Tier 4 passives focus on movement and damage/debuff, two areas which most PvP'ers are very familiar with...

I expect y'all have better suggestions than what I came up with-it was 'gee I need to fill this space with something players might think is kinda cool, without duplicating the same **** from the other two systems... and without breaking the game."

I did use a difference between the winners and losers in this system, with an "I participated" 5 points for Ker'rat runs-meaning that for meaningful advancement in this hypothetical system, a player would pretty much HAVE to play a lot of PvP, in the ques, against teams with roughly equal strength (aka 5 on 5). AFK'ers may still get a little bit, but they won't get much, and those that punch out/quit don't get diddly squat.

So...tear it apart, find the pieces that work and the ones that don't, analyze, flame, etc. etc.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

A Festival of Blood and Fire!

Blaming PvP for nerfs is like blaming Eudromaeosauria for today's urban crime rates.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 2
12-31-2012, 08:57 PM
I'm at work ATM but all I can say is... Those passive combined with the already available passives... Suck.

Very bad for pvp, that "phaser proc" passive is an insanely bad idea.

I maintain there can be no good results of adding a pvp reputation system that includes passives without further damaging the game.

It needs to be all costume rewards and store unlocks. That's the only way a pvp reputation system can work.

You get an "A" for effort though
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 94
# 3
12-31-2012, 09:06 PM
another question is why the hell do we want another rep to grind for? i'm not even done with the omega or rommies reps yet
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,286
# 4
12-31-2012, 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by jamesburtchell View Post
another question is why the hell do we want another rep to grind for? i'm not even done with the omega or rommies reps yet
and WHY are you grinding them? i.e. if you really didn't WANT to, you wouldn't be doing it, would you?

I admit though, that maicake716 has a point about balance-but I don't SEE much evidence that the continuing power-creep in the game is going to abate-one of the reasons I set this up to start at L25 instead of 50, is to assist newer players/toons in becoming at least marginally competitive by the time they're at L50 against "admirals' who've spent the last half year alternating between STF and the PvP ques. (Now STF, Romulan "content" and PvP ques).

For instance, I have characters on both sides of the S7 dividing line-one on the pre-S7 and one Post-S7, and their ability to compete not only in PvP but also in PvE at the same level is UTTERLY unbalanced by Legacy gear and access to effective weapons that now require a massive investment "endgame" in order to obtain, which in turn demands a huge amount of grinding.

I suspect the costs at T4 of this proposed system are LOWER, esp. if a player's been working this while levelling a new toon, and at T5, less burdensome since instead of having to go through 50 levels (or 25 for KDF) before you can even start, a hypothetical toon that's started in this system will BE competitive by 50 (say, Tier 3 or 4), with or without STF gearing.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

A Festival of Blood and Fire!

Blaming PvP for nerfs is like blaming Eudromaeosauria for today's urban crime rates.

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