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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 223
I am writing from the perspective of a mostly PvE player that recognizes the importance of PvP towards the health of the game. I may be making a fool of myself, or repeating past threads, but how can it hurt to say it again?

It's exciting to see how many people were interested in taking PvP lessons from more experienced players but there are major hurdles that are ahead of them, some of the same detractors that keep me from delving further into PvP than I have.

What I believe would benefit everyone if instituted:

Separate PvP queues into at least two groups at level 50. Give us Vanilla and Elite matches.
Vanilla matches would only permit players in ships that can be gotten without zen or lockboxes or lobi. All passives from reputation would be turned off, no armor, consoles, or weapons permitted that cannot be crafted or bought at vendors for ec, or be had from loot drops. This would eliminate the advantage from Maco/HG/Borg type gear. Aegis and Featured Episode reward sets would be useful again.

This vanilla style game play would guarantee a wading pool environment for new players and as fair as possible matches for mediocre types like myself to come to master the basics. Should a player rise to the top of the ranks they will likely want to move up to the elite.

Elite matches would be anything goes as is currently the norm.

Elite players should be eligible for a rating based on their successes. Lifetime wins/losses, kill ratio, healing per match, w/e the pvp community values the most. Use the best score from the player's best category so a Tank or Healer won't be penalized for not getting kills.

So rate every player 1-100. A player with no pvp experience is worth 1 point. A vanilla player that has some pvp accolades is worth perhaps 5 points per pvp accolade, let's say 25 points max. An Elite player has the max from vanilla plus their rating accrued in elite pvp matches.

Here's where you tie everybody together...

Have an event at least three times a week, so that NA, Europe, Asia have one in their respective playing windows. Pick a star system and open it up for a queue. Have the Fed and Klingon sides start with whatever is max for an instance. Allow no respawns. You get in the match the order you were queued.

Use the pvp ratings as a point value for each captain, if they are killed that is added to the other faction's score. This would make our best PvP captains take their rightful place among the fleet. We would need to protect them, or combine to take them out. They would be our heroes on the field as all our PvP ratings are visible above our ship during the fight.

If anytime before the end of the event one side runs out of captains and the other side completely holds the field the match is over. Otherwise at the end of the event, tally the scores. Give a grand prize to whomever scores the biggest total for the hour and a prize for whomever over achieves the most (with a minimum of five kills). If I as a vanilla player maxed out at 25 points gets killing blows on several elites, those kill points divided by my own value of 25 would give me the ratio used. This would also serve as a handicap for the best players.

To avoid abuse, those that enter the match with ships that would qualify as vanilla builds would be maxed at a 25 point value but if the same player showed up in a non-vanilla build they would have their elite rating of 26-100 points active. Any player without an elite rating couldn't enter the match in an elite build.

If desired, one match could be a free-for-all as mentioned previously, the other two could be attacking/defending a starbase like in fleet events. Fed defends KDF attacks, alternate shuffling that weekly. If your base is destroyed, no further friendly captains are allowed in the map and the match ends when you run out of ships or time runs out. These maps would further promote healer builds to keep the base alive and give points for healing. Give points based on total damage and total healing instead of kills due to starbase interaction.

To make this worth everybody's time and get their interest, have all the players of the winning faction that log in within eight hours of the match get a reward of 1k dilithium.
The high scorer from the match would get 4k and an accolade. The player with the highest kill points to personal value ratio would get their daily cap of 8k filled with an accolade. If that same person gets both honors give them a trophy and title with that 12k dil. Maybe they should get a special uniform unlock so we can see who they are on the ground. When we log in there could be a pop-up alert with the details, reward to claim, and names of the heroes from the last match.

I think this type of system would get everybody playing PvP at the level of their comfort.
Interest in ratings and possible rewards would inspire purchases of ships and gear.
Players would return to the game to take part.

So... Does this make sense?
Is it childish and uninformed?
Is it too complicated?
Does it not benefit PWE and their ROI so it won't happen?
Is it technically impossible?

I honestly don't know, just taking a stab here.
Regardless, I will say thank you to the devoted PvP players that have shared their knowledge to make even PvE types like myself have better builds and thus more fun.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,176
# 2
01-01-2013, 04:24 AM
so you say in order to participate i would have to strip my ship and BUY new equipment, when my ship's build is BASED on the bonuses which a set or two gives?

i don't like the idea

but - your idea of dividing the 2 categories is neat.

i think when cryptic introduces a proper FM's reward and Dill reward on the Fed side, more people will come to try some PVP.

my proposal: give us monthly resetted PVP rankings (in both categories) with a "monthly title" for the winners (which achieve a certain score) and a reputation with several costume unlocks/ship material unlocks.

use the model the game "Bloodline Champions" uses

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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 223
# 3
01-01-2013, 04:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duaths1 View Post
so you say in order to participate i would have to strip my ship and BUY new equipment, when my ship's build is BASED on the bonuses which a set or two gives?

i don't like the idea
Do you mean in order to enter the hour-long events? If so, you wouldn't have to strip anything. You would have had to been in enough pvp matches previously to qualify as a 26 out of 100 score to enter with a non-vanilla build.

If you had all your pvp accolades and participated in elite pvp, i dunno via a tutorial mission or something, you'd be at 26.

The hour long special events will have every conceivable type of ship/build flying around in them, all shooting at each other. You will either enter as a normal vanilla build or an elite for the sake of maintaining a minimum/maximum values for what kills are worth.

If an accomplished elite pvper chose to enter in a vanilla build for the challenge of it or to increase their chance at the over-achiever accolade, they would be worth the max 25 points.

If you mean something else, please explain.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 366
# 4
01-01-2013, 05:14 AM
Hey, I was playing with "vanilla" equipement for all the times I was PvPing and I never felt as if I was behind. Sure, the green hue on shields and the regen were quite pissing, same for the KHG placate, but behind?

Star Cruiser with purple regenerative [Reg]x3 shiels, purple Positron Deflector with Em or Shds bonuses and some nice Combat Engine + 25/100(50)/25/50(100) power settings and I can piss all over any set. And it costs me 150 000 EC more or less.

What is it with all this "sets are blah blah OP/whatever" those days?

Last edited by zarathos1978; 01-01-2013 at 05:18 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 120
# 5
01-01-2013, 05:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourxgamer View Post
I am writing from the perspective of a mostly PvE player that recognizes the importance of PvP towards the health of the game.
Absolutely spot on! The best part of PVP in this game is how relevant it is... you can make meaningful differences in the game world based on your performance... if you perform poorly you can lose assets... it really matters.

Oh wait. It doesn't. PVP is just a 5-v-5 simulation grind. It has always been disconnected from the rest of the STO experience. It's too bad it's this way, but until losing a ship actually matters (more than waiting 10 seconds to respawn), or until success in PVP can impact the larger game world, it's kinda passe.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 223
# 6
01-01-2013, 05:33 AM
congratulations for having skills?!

Real or imagined is irrelevant, if there is a hindrance to the growth of PvP it should be dealt with I think. The fact that the boot camp got good numbers tells me there may be a great many intimidated players.

You may in fact have superior natural abilities, good manual dexterity, vision, and a better understanding of mechanics and bo powers. You are more than welcome to do elite pvp in an inferior build if you prefer. More power to you. For my purposes in the proposed weekly events I'd still rate you a 25 for having no frills. If that annoys you, slap something fancy on in one of your slots and get credit for your elite rating you've racked up.

As far as having a normal/vanilla queue...
(: Would you begrudge me for wanting to pvp against my peers who may be on average less skilled? Either way, if you were using a vanilla build as you say, you'd be able to queue up for either group.

I get my pvp kicks in Kerrat mostly because I can show up in inferior gear and not hurt a team if I fare poorly. I kill more than I am killed surprisingly (likely due to cloaking), but I notice when it takes three to five players to knock off a jem hadar. I'd like to try playing where those don't exist, or console spam, or shield-stripping pets for that matter. May I?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 223
# 7
01-01-2013, 05:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heresincebeta View Post
Absolutely spot on! The best part of PVP in this game is how relevant it is... you can make meaningful differences in the game world based on your performance... if you perform poorly you can lose assets... it really matters.

Oh wait. It doesn't. PVP is just a 5-v-5 simulation grind. It has always been disconnected from the rest of the STO experience. It's too bad it's this way, but until losing a ship actually matters (more than waiting 10 seconds to respawn), or until success in PVP can impact the larger game world, it's kinda passe.
I was kinda hoping that having PvP victories bring dilithium rewards to the entire faction of the victor would create some meaning. The normal pvp queues would grant standing and w/e pvp daily type rewards we already get, but the big game-wide events would get loot for everybody.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,770
# 8
01-01-2013, 05:47 AM
* facepaws *

Oh yeah......love it when Space Jocks get up on their soap boxes and rant like someone cares.

God, PvP is so spiteful and childish. Bratty taunts safely from behind keyboards and fail inducing comebacks. If I wanted this, I'd watch the Dev's fight over the last doughnut in the staff lounge.

The only meaningful thing I ever got out of a PvP match was when I left.
Join Date : September 2010. Boldly going forward because Cryptic forgot reverse.
I am currently unsupervised, anyone who knows me will tell you that this will most likely lead to trouble. =3
Cryptic, I'll take your fancy T6 Ships and blow them out of the star's with my mighty T5 Vor'Cha!
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 558
# 9
01-01-2013, 05:53 AM
Hmph, make the entire game a PVP forum. Meaning, if someone bad mouths you, you can shoot them in the ass! Or if someone bails from a PVE match 'because its just too hard' you can hunt them down in regular sector space and blow them into bits with your cannons. Oh, the possibilities are endless. lol
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 223
# 10
01-01-2013, 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdragon View Post
* facepaws *

Oh yeah......love it when Space Jocks get up on their soap boxes and rant like someone cares.

God, PvP is so spiteful and childish. Bratty taunts safely from behind keyboards and fail inducing comebacks. If I wanted this, I'd watch the Dev's fight over the last doughnut in the staff lounge.

The only meaningful thing I ever got out of a PvP match was when I left.
Regardless of how you feel about pvp'ers, they are the best. They are either the most skilled, most studied, have payed the most cash for shiny things or some combo thereof. I respect that. It's easy to remember the ones with bad manners. Put them on ignore, or I dunno, beat them?

My point is that if this were real, these pvp players would be our best pilots. Instead of hating on them let's reintegrate them into events where PvE types would fly alongside them for a common goal.
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