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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,514
# 11
01-01-2013, 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourxgamer View Post
Regardless of how you feel about pvp'ers, they are the best. They are either the most skilled, most studied, have payed the most cash for shiny things or some combo thereof. I respect that. It's easy to remember the ones with bad manners. Put them on ignore, or I dunno, beat them?

My point is that if this were real, these pvp players would be our best pilots. Instead of hating on them let's reintegrate them into events where PvE types would fly alongside them for a common goal.
This. Typically the top end of any system has the potential to drive achievement over the entire system. This game lacks any serious PVE endgame so that leaves PVP to be the only venue where where a reasonable number of players are pushing performance against other players doing likewise.

It used to be called the NASCAR effect. A person viewing slightly modified Fords and Dodges racing about would have that same feeling of well being and fun when they got into THIER Ford or Dodge. The tech and resources automakers put into racing on the tracks trickled out to production autos in the form of technological improvements. It was all in all a win win type of situation.

Typically I can tell if I'm in a match with a PVP player. That player will be the one killing stuff, not dying, and tossing out heals.

I can also tell when I'm in a match with an idiot. We know what they toss out. Of course then I'll chime in and they'll realize they weren't the only five year old with a potty mouth in chat range. Put us both on ignore.

I would wager most of the players that are actually really good at anything wouldn't be the ones starting the pissing contest anyways. That's why I join in! Gotta win at sumthin!

But seriously for it all to work end game has to at least have the appearance of being achievable for a new player, and if we time gate the tools to PVP succesfuly without also time gating the PVP, the games in trouble.

Cheers! oh and poop on you guyz ur all noobz
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,111
# 12
01-01-2013, 08:07 AM
lol...

the only people i ever see talking trash and bashing people (from atop their soapbox) in zone chat during a pvp match are people i do not recognize.....and since i have about 150 PVPRs on my friends list, i think i have a lot of that community covered.... so i wonder who these people might be? hrm.....????????? yeah...

kudos to the opening poster, i would do the same thing for any PVE stf or foundry master....just give advice to make them harder, and give us more challenging content through the foundry....i think we would all really like that....

have fun kill bad guys

-thrusters on full-
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 242
# 13
01-01-2013, 08:18 AM
I really like your idea the ranking system would be good at the start but after a while it would be unbalanced. I recombined a ranking system like Starcraft has with different leagues but you all play in the same roster but it says which team is favored and which team is unfavored then when the underdog wins they get a huge boost of points but if the underdog loses they hardly lose any ranking
-"There is no such thing as an I win button!" "Um, Sir. Whats this button that says (I win) for then?"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 224
# 14
01-01-2013, 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpack12c View Post
I really like your idea the ranking system would be good at the start but after a while it would be unbalanced. I recombined a ranking system like Starcraft has with different leagues but you all play in the same roster but it says which team is favored and which team is unfavored then when the underdog wins they get a huge boost of points but if the underdog loses they hardly lose any ranking


I think the kind of ranking I had in mind would require keeping averages for each player and giving them a rating relative to those averages, not necessarily arranging all pvp players in a list of who's number one best down the line. That is to say, you could have lots of people with the same rank. Perhaps I should have used the word score instead of rank.

There could be categories like:

Killer - Your kills to death ratio is 5.8 to 1, or 1.4 to 1. This would then give you a relative score. Cryptic would have to analyze the data for a month or so to see what is normal/good/exceptional to make ratings. If you are among the top five percent in kill ratio you would get a 75 rating making for a total of 100 in that category. You start at 25 if you graduated vanilla. If you are middle of the road your score for the category would be around 60ish.


Tank - You receive x amount of damage compared to having died y amount of times. If you are a hard nut to crack you might get up to 100 in this category.

Healer - This one would probably be how much you heal per match on average compared to your peers.

Trying out different builds would possibly be detrimental to one category or another, so maybe one should declare before entering everyday queue matches if they are playing tank/healer/or killer. Otherwise it would be near impossible to max out all three categories simultaneously. Some players are very versatile and might pull off the triple crown if they can declare what scores they want a specific match to affect. If you don't pick a category the results affect all categories by default.

During the weekly featured events your best score would be visible, the best killers, tanks, or healers would all be 80's to 100 and key targets. Most regular pvp'ers would probably be in the 50-75 point range. poor players with nice ships would likely fill the 26-50 range.

PvE players would be fodder flying around as 1's and 5's etc. but would be important as swarms and making sure there is no shortage of captains during the event window. If a PvE player queues up to help out and they get killed quickly it's not a big deal, they were only worth a point, but they are needed to fill the map and keep the fight going.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 15
01-01-2013, 10:45 AM
Why not just upgrade the Aegis and FE sets to be competitive?

As well, some would like some story driven PvP events or areas of gameplay like K as well as a league or ranking system.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 01-01-2013 at 10:49 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 366
# 16
01-01-2013, 12:01 PM
If Cryptic upgrade the Aegis or FE sets they will either end worse then they are now, or more OP then old Borg/MACO mix. So I think it would be better if they leave the sets alone. Besides - vanilla equipement is pretty good and one can tailor it exactly for his needs instead of tailoring his play around set bonuses.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,492
# 17
01-01-2013, 12:49 PM
For my part I'd prefer to fight in the "vanilla" to the "elite". The issue always comes down to what some consider "vanilla" others do not. This could lead to like thinking people to start "smurfing" just b/c they prefer to avoid all the power creep.

I think you'd find if there really was a "paupers" style w/only common gear/doffs and non lotto/zen ships and no rep system bonuses you'd find the better players would still pound the crap out of the new players. Even at base level there's a huge difference between an unbuffed alpha and a normal attack, just as there's a huge difference between a defensively buffed target and one that is unbuffed. This means those who know when to apply buffs/debuffs/alphas will trash those who don't know how to properly set up a defensive buff or counter Sci debuffs such as VM and SNB.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 248
# 18
01-01-2013, 01:45 PM
Why exclude people who are better from fighting without ****, I wouldn't want to play in the "elite" que anyhow.
Noone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 224
# 19
01-01-2013, 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
For my part I'd prefer to fight in the "vanilla" to the "elite". The issue always comes down to what some consider "vanilla" others do not. This could lead to like thinking people to start "smurfing" just b/c they prefer to avoid all the power creep.

I think you'd find if there really was a "paupers" style w/only common gear/doffs and non lotto/zen ships and no rep system bonuses you'd find the better players would still pound the crap out of the new players. Even at base level there's a huge difference between an unbuffed alpha and a normal attack, just as there's a huge difference between a defensively buffed target and one that is unbuffed. This means those who know when to apply buffs/debuffs/alphas will trash those who don't know how to properly set up a defensive buff or counter Sci debuffs such as VM and SNB.
I agree that better players are gonna shine wherever you put them, and that's not a problem. I remember the days of leveling up my Klingon through PvP and those were good times that I miss. I don't mind getting beat by people with the same tool box of gear/ships/doffs. I have no excuse if they beat me and would be inspired to work harder. When I know I will never have the same gear as you, that's not inspiring.
When gear I could buy from the PvP store went away and people were wearing things from STF's and then later using gear from the zen stores, I stopped joining queues.


The incentive for better players not to hang around in vanilla matches with low level gear is that their personal PvP score would not progress past 25 there. Eventually one's ego would drive a person to go do some elite matches and progress/maintain their high scores. If you're willing to make yourself more beatable with lower level gear and just want a clean match, you're welcome to do the normal vanilla stuff for fun also.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 20
01-01-2013, 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
This. Typically the top end of any system has the potential to drive achievement over the entire system. This game lacks any serious PVE endgame so that leaves PVP to be the only venue where where a reasonable number of players are pushing performance against other players doing likewise.

It used to be called the NASCAR effect. A person viewing slightly modified Fords and Dodges racing about would have that same feeling of well being and fun when they got into THIER Ford or Dodge. The tech and resources automakers put into racing on the tracks trickled out to production autos in the form of technological improvements. It was all in all a win win type of situation.

Typically I can tell if I'm in a match with a PVP player. That player will be the one killing stuff, not dying, and tossing out heals.

I can also tell when I'm in a match with an idiot. We know what they toss out. Of course then I'll chime in and they'll realize they weren't the only five year old with a potty mouth in chat range. Put us both on ignore.

I would wager most of the players that are actually really good at anything wouldn't be the ones starting the pissing contest anyways. That's why I join in! Gotta win at sumthin!

But seriously for it all to work end game has to at least have the appearance of being achievable for a new player, and if we time gate the tools to PVP succesfuly without also time gating the PVP, the games in trouble.

Cheers! oh and poop on you guyz ur all noobz
Eh, I occasionally get into pissing matches when I'm in a trolling or argumentative mood. Otherwise I keep quiet

Besides, I usually just PvP in Ker'rat because I dislike the PvP queue system. Half of the fun in Ker'rat is taunting people who go into Ker'rat not expecting to PvP, and having them start QQing about Klingons
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