Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
# 11
01-01-2013, 05:59 AM
You weren't jumped by everyone in this thread so simmer down chief. It was a bad idea then that only got slightly better with the fix (you are still likely to maintain the accuracy debuff more often than not thanks to the short placate resistance and high proc rate). That being said, I feel like the passive from the rep system is even more likely to proc thanks to generally higher crit chances. Thus, more... bad.

On a side note, I'd still rather have seen Feds get a 5% shield resist while Klinks would get 5-10% defense to compliment the two factions varied play styles. (For MACO and KHG respectively)
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,394
# 12
01-01-2013, 07:16 AM
There's a word for basing a placate off of doing critical damage to an enemy with any random attack.

You all know that word. Regardless of what it may or may not interupt it is a nonsensical ability. Just from the word go, right out the gate, as soon as an idea forms and that idea says in whole or in part:

"I'm going to beat the snot out of you and you're going to sit there and take it."

As a game designer you need to know that that won't work. This isn't something way out there or esoteric. This is a common value in game design. There's no debate here. Get your heads out of the sand and look around. See how many offensive placates exists in competitive MMO's and see how they are handled. Oh hell. You won't look. I'll just tell you.

Generally they are on command. Everyone has one. And they are called various things, but interupt is one of them. Because they stop people from using a long cast ability. But they have a long cooldown. Generally longer than MOST of an opposing players offensive cooldowns. So you (both) have the ability to interupt ONE long cast ability every few minutes. Is that bad? No its an important part of game play. Should it become a passive ability that you can inflict on someone simply by critting them?

Yah...not so much.

I hope my charm really came through in this post. I've been working on my 'people skills'.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 13
01-01-2013, 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
There's a word for basing a placate off of doing critical damage to an enemy with any random attack.

You all know that word. Regardless of what it may or may not interupt it is a nonsensical ability. Just from the word go, right out the gate, as soon as an idea forms and that idea says in whole or in part:

"I'm going to beat the snot out of you and you're going to sit there and take it."

As a game designer you need to know that that won't work. This isn't something way out there or esoteric. This is a common value in game design. There's no debate here. Get your heads out of the sand and look around. See how many offensive placates exists in competitive MMO's and see how they are handled. Oh hell. You won't look. I'll just tell you.

Generally they are on command. Everyone has one. And they are called various things, but interupt is one of them. Because they stop people from using a long cast ability. But they have a long cooldown. Generally longer than MOST of an opposing players offensive cooldowns. So you (both) have the ability to interupt ONE long cast ability every few minutes. Is that bad? No its an important part of game play. Should it become a passive ability that you can inflict on someone simply by critting them?

Yah...not so much.

I hope my charm really came through in this post. I've been working on my 'people skills'.
Spot on, 10/10, would read again.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 269
# 14
01-01-2013, 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
There's a word for basing a placate off of doing critical damage to an enemy with any random attack.

You all know that word. Regardless of what it may or may not interupt it is a nonsensical ability. Just from the word go, right out the gate, as soon as an idea forms and that idea says in whole or in part:

"I'm going to beat the snot out of you and you're going to sit there and take it."

As a game designer you need to know that that won't work. This isn't something way out there or esoteric. This is a common value in game design. There's no debate here. Get your heads out of the sand and look around. See how many offensive placates exists in competitive MMO's and see how they are handled. Oh hell. You won't look. I'll just tell you.

Generally they are on command. Everyone has one. And they are called various things, but interupt is one of them. Because they stop people from using a long cast ability. But they have a long cooldown. Generally longer than MOST of an opposing players offensive cooldowns. So you (both) have the ability to interupt ONE long cast ability every few minutes. Is that bad? No its an important part of game play. Should it become a passive ability that you can inflict on someone simply by critting them?

Yah...not so much.

I hope my charm really came through in this post. I've been working on my 'people skills'.
+1

/10char
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,159
# 15
01-01-2013, 11:32 AM
Rather then nerf this ability more, just remove it and replace it with another passive, it should have never been in game in the first place.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 16
01-01-2013, 12:41 PM
JAM sensors should be the only long cast ability interrupt. a passive one happening exactly every 12 seconds is absurd. ive also been saying from day one these placates terrible, back when the KHG was introduced
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,080
# 17
01-01-2013, 03:05 PM
Best option?

Disable reputation abilities in PvP until a PvP specific reputation with properly designed abilities that will work well in PvP is released to be used only in PvP.

Snarky Answer? (sarcasm btw)

Time your tractor or alpha strike to go off after the enemy blows his passive placate and you get immunity ya nubs . L2P its not like anyone complains about a well timed RSP or APO messing up their plans!

Reality?

They have no clue what they are doing at this point. The entire system is designed around OP being the new balance and that only works until OP becomes dangerously stupid broken. It relies upon players not being very good at min/maxing and remaining ignorant of the underlying issues. And if you don't think most players are bad at min/max just join an Estf pug.

*edit add-on*

In the end though until someone somewhere realizes that you cannot have good gameplay that uses the same exact mechanics for PvP and PvE these issues will continue to be a problem. They are two different types of gameplay. I challenge anyone to show me an mmo system that is well balanced, fun to play, and rewarding in both a PvE and PvP environment. And by that I mean they use the same exact system/mechanics and players use the same exact builds/gear/powers in both.

Last edited by bareel; 01-01-2013 at 03:08 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 18
01-01-2013, 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken1981 View Post
well i do blame the pvp'ers on this. along time ago i made a post about the klink placate on sheilds. but yeah i got jumped on by everyone in this thred about it. oh its you just suck bla bla bla its annoying at best. yeah well now look. you guys are ******** about t4 placate and now the klink sheilds as well. so for calling me a nub about placate a long time ago, look how its come now. t4 rep with sheilds lmao what ever.

side note, this wasent directed at you snoge. just my rant got hyped after reading your post so fast quote. but yeah lest they did tone down the placate on sheilds along time ago but its still bs. its so stupid how the poeple that shot me down about tractors and placate and both combined now come to fourms looking to get it nerfed. and its just like i said, if they put it on a sheild i bet it will come as a passive. and that was a half joke back then. cant believe they actually did it lol.
Not to defend the KHG placate, but there's a huge difference between the two. Against the KHG the attacker has the option of not shooting and just spamming Sci abilities the OP mentions including TBing a target and debuffing it further. Then switching to another target while the TB remains up and allies attack the debuffed target. I had found this to be more of an annoyance than anything.

Now you have builds w/~20% CritH chance which basically means all they need to do is attack you and you're going to get placated. They now have greater control over who gets placated when. So, you can't count on using TB to get a positional advantage even if you aren't firing. This hurts not just offensive output, but defensive positioning.

The KDF Vet ship kept me around for awhile, but it's getting harder and harder to log on anymore. (FYI, can't remember the last time I used KHG shields, I prefer the Omega set).
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 259
# 19
01-01-2013, 04:40 PM
I love using tractor beams on my escorts (and carriers) now... It is incredibly annoying to lose targets once you have them selected, esp for Alpha Strikes like everyone has been saying.
+1 to remove this passive completely

Edit:
Disabling reputation in PvP would make those abilties useless though, who cares if the borg get placated for 2secs its not going to really do anything at all, Cryptic designed it to be used in PvP, it needs to be fixed since it is way to OP. Just a random idea, maybe a hull buff for a passive it would be useful against the borgs torps and wouldn't be bad in PvP as long as it was resonable (a few thousand HP).

Edit 2:
Not that related but what about having Tachyon beam lower the targets shield resist by means of a debuff and the amount scales with aux power, charged particle burst could also do something like this (different duration, different amount etc, obviously lower though since it affects multiple targets, it would still be useful since you can trick the other team into healing someone and jump on someone else, the debuff could be cleared by science or eng team) to all targets within a certain range.

And Cryptic already has certain abilties that are different in PvP to PvE (there is a ground weapon that has a different placate time against human targets than NPCs), and atm saying that there should be equal amount power in PvP and PvE is not 'working' very well since I and many others change weapons, boffs etc depending on PvP and PvE (well anyone that cares about maximum performance in the type of battle they are participating in does (for example tractor beam in PvP is awesome (stops targets, lowers defence) but in PvE putting a second hazard emitters there is much more benefical (clears borg/plasma debuffs more often, recovery for torps easier etc).

Starfleet M.A.C.O. KDF Honour Guard

Last edited by afree100; 01-01-2013 at 05:04 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,080
# 20
01-01-2013, 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by afree100 View Post
Not that related but what about having Tachyon beam lower the targets shield resist by means of a debuff and the amount scales with aux power, charged particle burst could also do something like this (different duration, different amount etc, obviously lower though since it affects multiple targets, it would still be useful since you can trick the other team into healing someone and jump on someone else, the debuff could be cleared by science or eng team) to all targets within a certain range.
Provided it doesn't push people into negative resists and removes a % of their current resist instead of a flat amount (ie reduce enemy shield resist by 50%) that is a pure gold idea.
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