Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 14
# 21
01-02-2013, 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
then employ a creative thought process and come up with something less one dimensional.

Does your fleet use extend shields? I wasn't making a personal attack, but I have seen fleets use it in the past. I'm sorry, but it seems to me that a team that revolves on every member having at least one instance of extend is indeed 'one-dimensional'. Perhaps if a team wasn't so reliant on extend shields the 'broken' stuff wouldn't be so 'broken'.

I'm also a bit disappointed. I have always respected you as someone that is benevolent and caring. As such, I would have expected someone more willing to explain than to lash out at someone questioning recent rules changes.

I DO know what those things do. However, even if a team has 3 science officers and nukes, 5 members with extend negates that. Two people with target shields or even aux for the healer..... 5 extend negates. shockwave....same. Sorry man, I'm not buying into how 'easily extend is removed' well, maybe....but not as easily as it's replaced.

Last edited by loganwilliams1; 01-02-2013 at 09:46 PM. Reason: added stuff
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 135
# 22
01-02-2013, 09:46 PM
Post has been moved

The rules disregard almost half of the equipment/gear/consoles readily available for every player in this game.This either imply that half of the stuff used in everyday STO is somehow "broken" and not suitable for pvp or that this game simply isnt made for "fair and square" pvp.If you rule out half the gear/skills that is part of this game you may as well play a different game alltogether
No wonder Registration is practicaly dead. ( cryox1 )
Nova Aurora Polaris
- Nova Aurora Polaris -
@pascalb1
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 33
# 23
01-02-2013, 09:59 PM
So 2 or 3 people on a 5 man team has extends, it counts as the whole team?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 105
# 24
01-02-2013, 09:59 PM
ok pax did forget one way to counter extends.
You focus a target for x amount of time..more than likely every extends on that team will be on the person you just focused for 30 seconds..

Then guess what something amazing happens, you switch targets to the 3 to 4 open targets.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
Nice to see that pax is now speaking for cryptic and the authority on what is broken. I would like to hear branflakes explain from a devs perspective how inversion and tipler are broken. I was unaware of cryptic listing these items as broken. I am really upset that cryptic has given power to a few ppl to use this tourney to pick on fleets they dont like .Nice job cryptic way to bring the community together.Its funny how we beat a team with a setup in the q and less then a week later the entire build that we ran was banned.2 weeks away from the start of the tournament. When i asked pascal why only the ships and sets that we were useing were banned and things like 4 extend teams and 3 bug ship teams or any other setup with more than 2 of an ability or ship were allowed except ours. He said there would be too many rules if he did that. So i ask you this why was it so easy to ban everything that sob was useing and not restrict anything that other fleets are stacking like extends.Seems like we are being singled out because the people running the tourney hold grudges against sob. I cant see how cryptic can sponsor a tourney ran by people like that. As far as im concerned this tourney was the final nail in the coffin for unity in pvp.So join pascals tourney but only bring the broken stuff that he allows. And its all cryptic sponsored what a joke.
First off, the tipler console isnt that bad, its annoying, but can be managed with. The Temporal Inversion set bonus, however, is very powerful when 3-4 people on a team use them, offensively and defensively.
Heals, buffs, and weapon firing cycles are all on an extended cooldown, not to mention that your ship is also moving very slowly. AND, then you add, Warp plasma, Theta Radiation Vent, Antimatter spread, scramble sensors, etc. make even a slight attempt at countering the inversion field extremely difficult when it is spaced out just enough to keep a whole team in the inversion field for more than a single inversion would do.
Science team does not clear it, it attempts to in the 5 seconds that it is active, but is not a complete cure because it only clears in ticks, not continuously and the debuff is reapplied.
Using scramble sensors is not a clean counter, it just puts the AOE Inversion field on the opposing teams teammates.

Extend Shields gives a small gradual heal, with a resist that is based on the shield power of the extender when it is activated. if a healer goes full shield power before applying extend shields, it will have a higher resist. this ability can be dealt with pretty easy overall.
1 ) Time your subnuke/alpha between the person's extend shields that they are recieving.
2.) Force an extend shields on a dummy target then alpha/subnuke your real target
3.) Shockwave the extender to break the extend shields ability
4.) repulse the target out of the healers range, separating the extender from the target
5.) Dont forget that the person carrying extends can only use it when the team mate is withitn 7.5km. outside of that, the resist does not apply.


You do not have to have a shockwave or repulsors to deal with extends, just takes coordination and timing.

@Minitrckin08 Turkish RP Heros

Last edited by evilghost1026; 01-07-2013 at 12:22 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 257
# 26
01-03-2013, 01:00 AM
I cant believe people are comparing extend shields to inversion field lol. Extends simple to get around 5 inversion fields umm right... It is a good thing to use vs karrat gank squads but come on in a 5 man team?! I don't think inversion field is op if it is just one ship but in a group it is.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 417
# 27
01-03-2013, 05:31 AM
Regarding Rules:

These are not just arbitrary rules. Representatives from all major PVP fleets were invited to work, compromise and agree on a set of rules to ensure fair play and to prevent the utilization of broken/exploitative powers. The rules were developed together, not by a singe individual or a single fleet.

I believe it is not only in the PVP communities interest but also in Cryptics interest to prohibit the usage of broken/exploitative game mechanics.

Representatives from TSI, Sad Pandas, TRH, SOB, Nova Core etc collaborated that day.

Since this endeavour is supported by Cryptic, I tried (as the representative of TRH during that meeting) to work towards having as few rules as possible, in order to ensure widest possible participation in this tournament. Working from that premise I did not quite agree to some of the item exclusions. But more important what one single indivual wanted or one single fleet wanted is what the majority of the Representatives (all respectable and knowledgeable PVP'ers) wanted.


Regarding Extends:

Since I started playing PVP, Extends have been part of the game, and really a non-controversial part I might add. Where does this "Extends are broken"-attitude come from all of a sudden?!

Are Extends broken? No.

Can it be powerful when used correctly? Yes. But so is Cannon Rapid Fire for instance. And Emergency Power to Shields. And so is a lot of stuff...

All successfull PVP fleets have used and continue using Extends, including TSI, Sad Pandas
Elysion, TRH, Angry Clowns, you name it! By demonizing a non-controversial Bridge Officer ability one is basically alienating the whole PVP community. It just does not make any sense.

Can Extends be countered? Sure. Don't take my word for it, just watch some videos for proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfNsJ67PNyY

In this video you see a match between TRH and TSI. One member of TRH carries Extends, while 2 members of TSI carry Extends. Watch the buffs, you can clearly see that our kill targets sometimes had 2 Extends cast on him. And then watch how the kill target still blows up.

It totally escapes me how someone or an entire fleet could possibly built up so much anger regarding Extends.


Regarding Time ship abilities:

Since the Time ships / Temporal Warfare 3-Set Bonus got released it was clear from the getgo that their console abilities could be very powerful, maybe even OP. Especially when combined with other P2W-consoles.

It is indeed possible to "abuse" the Inversion field abilitiy in a way that resistance of an opposing team would be futile. If a team goes into a match with enough time ships and use them properly, a defeat will virtually be impossible.

I tried to bring this topic up during the rules meeting. To my shame I must confess I could have done a better job at explaining the exploitative nature of using multiple tiplers and Temporal Inversion fields. Also, the rules meeting lasted for more than 5 hours and the people involved got a bit restless, so it was decided upon to deal with this whole time ship matter on a later date.

We silently hoped that at least well known PVP fleets would show some restrain and that the whole issue would just remain an "academic" problem.

Also, if someone thinks that the rules basically rules out all the consoles/tactics that ensured someone owns victory, it is perhaps not the rules that are problem but one owns game style or even ones philosophy regarding how to PVP.


Regarding the whole petty inter-fleet beef:

I understand that certain individuals and/or fleet is trying to run a campaign against the fleet that I am a member of.

But one should consider that trying to smear another PVP fleet with unsubstantiated accusations in the forums and in the OrganizedPVP channel could cast an unfortunate light on the accuser.

In the interest of one owns credibility and in the interest of the PVP community we probably should try to keep this thread clean of any personal vendettas.

Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some pew pew PVP action!

Last edited by ilhansk; 01-03-2013 at 05:53 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 28
01-03-2013, 06:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilhansk View Post

Regarding Extends:

Since I started playing PVP, Extends have been part of the game, and really a non-controversial part I might add. Where does this "Extends are broken"-attitude come from all of a sudden?!

Are Extends broken? No.

Can it be powerful when used correctly? Yes. But so is Cannon Rapid Fire for instance. And Emergency Power to Shields. And so is a lot of stuff...

All successfull PVP fleets have used and continue using Extends, including TSI, Sad Pandas
Elysion, TRH, Angry Clowns, you name it! By demonizing a non-controversial Bridge Officer ability one is basically alienating the whole PVP community. It just does not make any sense.

Can Extends be countered? Sure. Don't take my word for it, just watch some videos for proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfNsJ67PNyY

In this video you see a match between TRH and TSI. One member of TRH carries Extends, while 2 members of TSI carry Extends. Watch the buffs, you can clearly see that our kill targets sometimes had 2 Extends cast on him. And then watch how the kill target still blows up.

It totally escapes me how someone or an entire fleet could possibly built up so much anger regarding Extends.


.
I think the first major issue's with extend shields was brought to light when the very first "TSI funday" was held.

ever since then i've noticed that extend shields has been considered "dirty" and i still cant fathom why. Yes i do understand why it was frowned upon for the fun day (hindsight does that).

i personally feel that extend shields is quite powerful for what it is/does and at minimal cost to the user, and then they introduced that duty officer that makes it even more enticing to use extend shields...

but thats an issue cryptic needs to solve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 105
# 29
01-03-2013, 01:01 PM
You know to be perfectly honest i know of no one in my fleet or myself that actually use the extends duty officers...Don't need them.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13
# 30
01-10-2013, 07:31 PM
Can we all just friggin pvp and have friggin fun folks? this is what the tourny and league is all about. That is why PvP Bootcamp was formed. That is why us Leet PvP'ers grip moan and grown wishin that our pvp community would grow and become more skillful.... Yet half of you are on here crying and agruing like lil school girls. Its a wonder that people want to pvp seeing how u girls cry on forums. I Love our game (albiet there are many fixes that are needed) and I love to pvp, and I enjoy the company of those smart mamajamma's that teach me things i dont know about and ive been playing for almost 3 years now.

So lets all smile, shut up and friggin pew pew and die with honor!


Soveliss-Sovair

Leader of SvKELITE
Mosquito Squadron
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