Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,216
# 11
01-02-2013, 02:26 PM
People just have a non-specific idea of what diminishing returns means, and it's hurt by the use of percentages.

One console gives a total of +20% of X. Two consoles give a total of +40% of X. Three consoles give a total of +60% of X. That is not diminishing returns, because you are still getting +20% of X per console. Each additional console does not suddenly give less than +20% of X.

What throws people off is that the % in the description is additive, not multiplicative. They go "The 2nd console is only giving me +16%, not +20%! The 3rd console is only giving me +14%, not +20%!" It's a mistake bought about by combine a fuzzy concept of diminishing returns with percentages.

Assume X is 100. One console gives a total of +20. Two consoles give a total of +40. Three consoles give a total of +60. It's exactly the same scenario as the above, but now it becomes obvious there is no diminishing returns, you are getting +20 per console. Each additional console does not suddenly give less than +20.

The only thing that suffers diminishing returns is Damage Resistance Magnitude itself, not the consoles. What is displayed on items is "Damage Resistance Magnitude" (even though it's not displayed as "Magnitude"), but it shows "Damage Resistance" on our Status screens. The Damage Resistance Magnitude granted by consoles stack without diminishing returns, (1 = +20, 2 = +40, 3 = +60, etc.) but you get less actual Damage Resistance from each additional unit of Damage Resistance Magnitude.

So your Damage Resistance Magnitude increases linearly with each console, but you're suffering diminishing returns for the Damage Resistance Magnitude translating into actual Damage Resistance.

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Republic Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 506
# 12
01-02-2013, 04:42 PM
I came here and read and thought I had the answer I was looking for. Now I am just more confused.
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Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,740
# 13
01-02-2013, 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by olivia211 View Post
I came here and read and thought I had the answer I was looking for. Now I am just more confused.
Fot tl;dr purpose:

Offensive and power consoles stack nicely.

Defensive consoles don't stack quite as nicely. (Each one you add will be less efficient than the previous one).
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 29
# 14
01-03-2013, 08:02 AM
So is this all hearsay or is there some evidence to back it up? I'd love to get an "official" reply since we're all undoubtedly opinionated and confused.

At least we all agree that two times twenty is something greater than twenty.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,192
# 15
01-03-2013, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glasswords View Post
So is this all hearsay or is there some evidence to back it up? I'd love to get an "official" reply since we're all undoubtedly opinionated and confused.

At least we all agree that two times twenty is something greater than twenty.
Yes, it is easy to prove that there are no tactical console diminishing returns. Just plot the damage curve as you add / remove consoles!

From http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/ed...post&p=6976751

Quote:
Originally Posted by shar487a
I just plotted damage numbers using my Mk XII AP DHC in tactical space with zero thru four antiproton mag regulators Mk XI (28.1% bonus damage per console). Here are the results:

0 AP mag regulator = 990.1 DPS
1 AP mag regulator = 1071.8 DPS, gain +81.7 DPS
2 AP mag regulator = 1153.2 DPS, gain +81.4 DPS
3 AP mag regulator = 1234.8 DPS, gain +81.6 DPS
4 AP mag regulator = 1316.3 DPS, gain +81.5 DPS

There are slight variances in DPS gain due to round-off truncations, but damage gains are otherwise constant. Based on this information, there are no visible diminishing returns with tactical consoles.
Don't take my word for it... you can plot your own numbers from the game and see for yourself!

EDIT: To the Forum Mods -- is there any way to sticky this info so that the answer doesn't keep getting forgotten?

Last edited by shar487a; 01-03-2013 at 11:03 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,975
# 16
01-04-2013, 07:29 AM
darkjeff explained it nicely...there is an indirect diminishing return on resistance consoles, the consoles themselves stack, but the higher your number (the one present on the consoles) becomes the lower the magnitude of the resistance becomes.

keep also in mind, that resistance consoles work seperately from shields...if your shields never drop (thats basically the case in any normal PVE mission other than stfs) the armor consoles do NOTHING
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Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 120
# 17
01-04-2013, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shar487a View Post
Yes, it is easy to prove that there are no tactical console diminishing returns. Just plot the damage curve as you add / remove consoles!

From http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/ed...post&p=6976751



Don't take my word for it... you can plot your own numbers from the game and see for yourself!

EDIT: To the Forum Mods -- is there any way to sticky this info so that the answer doesn't keep getting forgotten?
Great rundown.. one thing you showed that I'd like to point out for everyone: even the FIRST +28.1% console only added roughly 8% observable DPS, and that's because it's +28.1% to base damage, whereas tooltip damage takes into account skills.

Think of it like this: Damage=Base Damage*(Skill%Increase+Console1+Console2+...)

The important things to know are:
1. any old +X% increase item/skill/ability you are considering will add much less than you think to your current DPS
2. these items that add much less than you think are still adding their full value (i.e. you get just as much more DPS from console 1 and console 3)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 29
# 18
01-05-2013, 09:37 AM
Thanks everyone. I appreciate the replies. How are you measuring your damage output? I haven't been able to find a combat log or something that I can parse to measure. Am I missing something?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,313
# 19
01-05-2013, 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
darkjeff explained it nicely...there is an indirect diminishing return on resistance consoles, the consoles themselves stack, but the higher your number (the one present on the consoles) becomes the lower the magnitude of the resistance becomes.

keep also in mind, that resistance consoles work seperately from shields...if your shields never drop (thats basically the case in any normal PVE mission other than stfs) the armor consoles do NOTHING
I never bothered to check, as any bleed damage I took always had an energy type, and it showed two values, I assumed this was due to the resistance reduction.

So are you saying now that armor does not decrease bleed damage?
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,675
# 20
01-05-2013, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glasswords View Post
Thanks everyone. I appreciate the replies. How are you measuring your damage output? I haven't been able to find a combat log or something that I can parse to measure. Am I missing something?
Hover your mouse cursor over the weapon's fire icon in your power tray while you're sitting in tactical space.
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