Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,475
# 31
01-01-2013, 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voicesdark View Post
I think you're all missing a very important point. It's not a matter of too much debris or too many nebulae or anything like that. The fact of the matter is that the systems seem exactly like what they are, square blocked maps.
And how would you suggest they do it otherwise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by voicesdark View Post
I understand certain restrictions such as ship orientation were put into place for the TV series because of the limitations with studio models, but this is where the game needs to evolve. It's long over do that they finally increase the ascent/descent angles so we don't have to "corkscrew" and they really need to start migrating to larger sized spacial maps. They have shown with the "Adventure zones" that they can build larger maps, well it's time they started taking advantage of that for the system maps as well.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by voicesdark View Post
Warp speed is restricted inside solar systems for only extreme emergencies so why not build out the sol system map where you fly by the planets until you get to ESD (transwarp to ESD would still place you directly outside of ESD). Everything is so crammed together in these tiny mostly flat block maps that there is no sense of size and grandeur.
This is part of the problem, but since the things crammed together are so mis-proportioned it just doesn't feel like you're floating in a void. Forced perspective can work wonders, but you can't expect it to work when you sabotage it by filling it full of random crap in the name of making it "interesting".

Quote:
Originally Posted by voicesdark View Post
And just for the record and I don't know about anyone else, but I don't buy the whole "we don't have the tech to remove the sector block walls". Sorry but I'm calling bull**** on that one. The real issue is that the game engine isn't powerful enough to have the entire sector map be all one, however there is no reason why the map couldn't be divided into larger sectors...ie beta ursa, zeta, and alpha tranguli be all one continious sector block, and same with federation, klingon, and romulan space.
I think you are wrong, the game engine could handle all the sector maps in one.... we would just only be able to have one or two players in an instance at a time.

While I would love that, that isn't really feasible.

Larger sectors is something I would be open too.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,696
# 32
01-04-2013, 09:34 AM
I agree, Nebulae have been used too often. As have asteroid fields.

The problem is that empty, black space is pretty boring, and removes any sense of movement. As annoying as the asteroid fields and in map nebulae may be, they give you clues as to your position relative to other things/players/mobs in the map.

In general, colored space has been the trend for a good while now. Shows/Movies used to depict space as a dark, black nothing. Then, someone got the bright idea to make it more visually interesting, and now everyone has followed suit. That "colored space" has never really been explained, or given a name. To a lay person, the only thing they've seen from REAL space, that looks anything like that are Nebulae, therefor: Colored Space=Nebulae.

As for "hiding in the nebula," that line has been used on the shows plenty.

If we're trying to be more realistic, than any system map that doesn't have a dominant star (sun), should leave your ship dark and unlit. But the shows never cared about that, every ship was always lit from somewhere off screen, no matter where they were supposed to be.

At this point, we aren't going to go back and redo the skyfiles and geometry for 1000's of maps. A few could be targeted, and we can work on reducing the nebulae/asteroids in future maps (I think this has already been going fairly well with recent additions? i.e. Tau Dewa, and the Azure nebula)



Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
On top of all of this, there's tons of crap in outer space that's visually interesting. Use that instead! Binary Stars, Star Clusters, Auroras, comets, newly formed star systems, gas giants, super novae, stars so huge it takes light eight hours for it's own light to travel from one side to the other, even honest to god lightning bolts.

For goodness sake Cryptic! Space is full of insane madness. There's enough stuff in outer space for thousands of video games! Shame on you for ignoring it!

Many of those things are in the game somewhere already. But, they may not be as prominent or noticeable as the nebulae are. Nebulae were likely used so ubiquitously early on because they didn't have time to make custom one off stuff for each of those 1000+ maps. Now, we still don't have a ton of time, but we can do cooler stuff once in a while. You talk about how everything is always the same. I point to New Romulus, which has MASSIVE Auroras, that no one has mentioned. . . We have, and we will continue to add other cool space bits where we can, but we cannot retroactively do those everywhere in the game that already exists.


ETA: The current DS9 Skyfile was made by me. I actually thought that the purple streak was WAY more subtle than anything that had been there before, or any of the other nebulae in the game at the time. I used the stars I did (few, and dim) to try and emphasize the 'blackness' of space, and what we had always seen in the show.
-The Artist formerly known as Tumerboy



Quote:
Originally Posted by mightybobcnc View Post
Tacofangs, what is your beef with where's Sulu?

Last edited by tacofangs; 01-04-2013 at 09:39 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 130
# 33
01-04-2013, 09:59 AM
Tumerboy, since you seem to be one of the only devs that actually read the forum, could you please ask whoever does the sound to fix the music bug with the foundry? What I mean is, no music plays in missions until you engage in combat. And since some missions dont have combat at the beginning or on ever map, your just running around in complete silence. It feels incredibly lame.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,782
# 34
01-04-2013, 10:05 AM
The Taco has spoken.

Quick question about Kerrat again (there's more broken there than I care to say): The eternal green space all around is quite dull and almost makes me think that I'm in some kind of lunatic fluidic space, honestly. Could we get a little more pretty in that place? (and maybe fixing the stretchy cubes, invincible probes/spheres, running probes/spheres, Borg ships looking like they're in one place but actually they're somewhere else)

I personally think the DS9 map is nice, as it is mostly an empty starfield that focuses attention on the station in the middle. The cloud in the background I always found to be nice. But I've never seen an episode of DS9, so what do I know...
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 190
# 35
01-04-2013, 12:56 PM
For new sectors, how about placing one or maybe two nebula in the sector, and adjust the view of those nebula based on how far away the star system is from each? Ie, in Tau Dewa Acemar has the Azure Nebula spanning 1/3 of the skybox, while at Archer, it is only a few degrees wide.

Instead of giant amorphous nebula, have some specific nebula types (and possible mission ideas) such as:

Planetary nebula (old sun-like star turning in to a white dwarf) - https://www.google.com/search?q=planetary+nebula
Select Image for Planetary Nebula for a set of typical images
Mission ideas - Considering they are very aged star systems, potential recovery of ancient alien artifacts, with competition from various factions.

Supernova nebula (remnants of a large star that blew up) -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crab_Nebula.jpg - about 1,000 years old
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_Nebula - ~7,000 years old
Mission Ideas - Supernova research, collecting heavy elements, extreme particles (new weapons or shield research/testing)

Stellar nursery (new stars being born, Herbig Haro objects)
https://www.google.com/search?q=herbig+haro
Mission ideas - Science analysis of starbirth, very young planets, mineral development (Nukara could be such a place)

Now, considering we can fly faster than light, we could "go back" in time by visiting locations further away from an event, such as a supernova (ie Romulus blowing up). Systems further away in LY than the time of the event would not see anything special. Systems at the same LY as the time of the event would see the supernova. Systems closer in LY as the time of the event would see the post-supernova nebula.

Considering sectors are at most a few dozen light years across, large old structures like these would be essentially the same from all locations, adjusted for distance (and possibly perspective).

Smaller nebula structures would be limited to a single system, and could be part of the above, ie core of recent supernova would be a neutron star with high speed rotation and jets (extreme environment testing), up close with a Herbig Haro object would be a star system filled with dust and asteroids.

I grant a free license to use any and all of the above ideas.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 318
# 36
01-04-2013, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post

As for "hiding in the nebula," that line has been used on the shows plenty.

I
LOL, I just saw that episode the other day. My objection is actually to the use of the term NEBULA to refer to every little cloud of dust. I personally think the maps themselves look awesome. I just think that a sapce game should use accurate terms.

The only map feature that I take objection to is the "solar wind" that is prevalent on many maps, as it cause supreme lag.

So, to restate. "Captain, let's go hide in that NEBULA!" ... horribly mistaken terminology.

"Captain, let's go hide in that DUST CLOUD!" ... much better.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 799
# 37
01-04-2013, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
I agree, Nebulae have been used too often. As have asteroid fields.
There are quite a few maps in the first two mission arcs that suffer from flicker and fracturing. The background graphics are overlapped or not aligned or sequenced or however you do it.

I've been complaining about this for MONTHS now, as have other people. It's to the point where certain missions are nigh unplayable.

I can gather up a list and post it, in fact I did once before but nothing came of it.

Can you make the time to retune these maps to fix the flickering/fracturing?
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,291
# 38
01-04-2013, 08:28 PM
The purple splotch in the Bajor system is canon, though. That's the Denorios Belt.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,232
# 39
01-04-2013, 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
If we're trying to be more realistic, than any system map that doesn't have a dominant star (sun), should leave your ship dark and unlit. But the shows never cared about that, every ship was always lit from somewhere off screen, no matter where they were supposed to be.
Normally true. The episode from voyager called "Night" Would be interesting choice for one map. Maybe a PvP map where all you have is each other to get your bearings. Also outside of the new lighting mechanic it would be an easy map to make.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 40
01-05-2013, 03:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
At this point, we aren't going to go back and redo the skyfiles and geometry for 1000's of maps.
I double dog dare you.
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