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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,671
# 61
01-04-2013, 05:35 PM
since all this starbase and rep crap i have resigned myself to never making any new characters again. i main 3, and grinding them all up slashes my pvp time down to almost nothing quite often. though i finished the rep and the races now and the grind is basically nothing, its great to just log in and do something fun instead of something i need to do. unless i want more rep gear.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 62
01-04-2013, 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonfl View Post
The only thing that is really impossible for a newcomer to get off the bat would be Rep-based gear and passives (assuming they are complete new-comer to the game and not simply PvP). The Starbase stuff is accessible by simply joining an established fleet. Nearly everything else is obtainable rather quickly. I've never been good at making EC, so I'm still playing catch-up there, but I have never felt disadvantaged because I have MkXI instead of MkXII.

As much as I hate the power-creep in this game, denial of opportunity isn't YET a big issue. I do, however, see the potential for that to become a problem in the not too distant future.

As Horizon pointed out, I run a farily Vanilla build, with my only special console being the Subspace Jump. It is still possible for skill to overcome gear "defficencies" (I still feel giving up constant bonuses for several activatable powers with long cooldowns is a fool's bargain. It really only becomes better when a coordinated team is spamming said abilities... not too mention grossly unfun for the opposition). Knowing your role and being good at it is still, usually, preferable. IMO.

Edit: As far as ships go, yes there are several ships that are vastly superior to anything that came before them. That does not mean they are useless. I only gave up my DSSV, in favor of a Wells, rather recently. I did this for the turnrate though, not because it has a superior BOFF layout or console slots. In fact, I preferred the console slots on my FDSSV much more than the Wells.
Imo, the YET is just a matter of the time it takes to roll out the next rep system. Also, there's still the matter of getting Doffs, fleet xp et al, though to be fair I guess people could just buy Zen -> EC tradable gear/keys -> Exchange for DOffs/non-Lobi Fleet/Rep Gear.

Also, I had been very restrictive in what I was refering to as Vanilla to keep from getting into this or that is acceptable but A,B, and C are not. That said, it's been forever since I played my Fed Sci, do you really think the DSSV (non Fleet) is better than Sci Oddy, or Tholian Sci in terms of a beafy defense Sci option? Or did you use the DSSV in another role?

Keep in mind other than annoyance consoles (eg AMS which has actually abuse potential w/KDF BCs imo), there are now a large variety of consoles w/passive bonuses, eg Diplomacy Sci consoles, Lobi store consoles, Rep System Rewards, and Plas Leech.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 851
# 63
01-04-2013, 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Imo, the YET is just a matter of the time it takes to roll out the next rep system. Also, there's still the matter of getting Doffs, fleet xp et al, though to be fair I guess people could just buy Zen -> EC tradable gear/keys -> Exchange for DOffs/non-Lobi Fleet/Rep Gear.

Also, I had been very restrictive in what I was refering to as Vanilla to keep from getting into this or that is acceptable but A,B, and C are not. That said, it's been forever since I played my Fed Sci, do you really think the DSSV (non Fleet) is better than Sci Oddy, or Tholian Sci in terms of a beafy defense Sci option? Or did you use the DSSV in another role?

Keep in mind other than annoyance consoles (eg AMS which has actually abuse potential w/KDF BCs imo), there are now a large variety of consoles w/passive bonuses, eg Diplomacy Sci consoles, Lobi store consoles, Rep System Rewards, and Plas Leech.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head with the Yet being the next rep system, but I digress...

I feel the DSSV has a good mix of maneuverability and survivability. For a long time it was the only sci ship with Com and LtC sci BOFF slots and the ability to slot 3 engineering abilities. This gave me the option of having 2 EP2S and another engi based heal/resist to throw around, like Aux2SIF or Extends. Or, if I was feeling selfish, an RSP. I even believe that this made it superior to the Intrepid-R because the Ablative Armor was so fragile (easy to knock off with a stun).

I usually build my sci ships with 3 things in mind:

1. Support Healing, in a secondary role. Meaning in support of a primary healer.
2. Escort Neutralization. Removing the ability of an escort to maneuver and/or deal damage. I usually accomplish this with litte more than tractor beams and SNB, maybe a VM, and maneuverability.
3. Light CC and Healing disruption. PSW is my primary tool for this. Though I was a big fan of Grav Well back when it was still useful against players.

I don't feel any other sci ship really packs that all into 1 as well as the DSSV. The presence of more maneuverable escorts, ie: the Bug, was what finally convinced me to go with the Wells. Even now, I still consider switching back everytime I look at the Lt. Sci slot and wish I had a LtC..

Bear in mind, I kept the BOFFs needed, to change roles, handy at all times. If pure CC was needed, I could do it. If shield stripping was needed, I could do that as well (though not as well as before S5).

The Orb Weaver is too fat to accomplish those goals well. So is the Sci Oddy, though it does make a great primary healer. The Recluse Carrier falls in with the Sci Oddy in that regard.

Lately I have been looking at the Vesta, but as of this moment I haven't made any significant effort to familiarize myself with its BOFF layout. Though I am told it is basically a RSV clone with a hangar bay thrown in for good measure. This might make it viable because the hangar bay would allow me to add more heals to my Sci BOFF slots, as the Danubes would allow me to drop to 1 Tractor Beam (even though the thought of using them makes me feel a little dirty).

Basically, I feel it is still a good all around Sci Ship and is not useless. The Fleet Version is the only true Sci Ship with 5 Sci Console slots and that is why I switched from the regular version as soon as my fleet unlocked the appropriate shipyard tier.

Edit: It is also important to consider that I don't hold scoreboard numbers in high regard. The exception being the final score. Damage and kills mean absolutely nothing to me, as long as the escort flying my wing has 15 kills and top damage
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers

Last edited by brandonfl; 01-04-2013 at 06:45 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 64
01-04-2013, 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonfl View Post
You pretty much hit the nail on the head with the Yet being the next rep system, but I digress...

I feel the DSSV has a good mix of maneuverability and survivability. For a long time it was the only sci ship with Com and LtC sci BOFF slots and the ability to slot 3 engineering abilities. This gave me the option of having 2 EP2S and another engi based heal/resist to throw around, like Aux2SIF or Extends. Or, if I was feeling selfish, an RSP. I even believe that this made it superior to the Intrepid-R because the Ablative Armor was so fragile (easy to knock off with a stun).

I usually build my sci ships with 3 things in mind:

1. Support Healing, in a secondary role. Meaning in support of a primary healer.
2. Escort Neutralization. Removing the ability of an escort to maneuver and/or deal damage. I usually accomplish this with litte more than tractor beams and SNB, maybe a VM, and maneuverability.
3. Light CC and Healing disruption. PSW is my primary tool for this. Though I was a big fan of Grav Well back when it was still useful against players.

I don't feel any other sci ship really packs that all into 1 as well as the DSSV. The presence of more maneuverable escorts, ie: the Bug, was what finally convinced me to go with the Wells. Even now, I still consider switching back everytime I look at the Lt. Sci slot and wish I had a LtC..

Bear in mind, I kept the BOFFs needed, to change roles, handy at all times. If pure CC was needed, I could do it. If shield stripping was needed, I could do that as well (though not as well as before S5).

The Orb Weaver is too fat to accomplish those goals well. So is the Sci Oddy, though it does make a great primary healer. The Recluse Carrier falls in with the Sci Oddy in that regard.

Lately I have been looking at the Vesta, but as of this moment I haven't made any significant effort to familiarize myself with its BOFF layout. Though I am told it is basically a RSV clone with a hangar bay thrown in for good measure. This might make it viable because the hangar bay would allow me to add more heals to my Sci BOFF slots, as the Danubes would allow me to drop to 1 Tractor Beam (even though the thought of using them makes me feel a little dirty).

Basically, I feel it is still a good all around Sci Ship and is not useless. The Fleet Version is the only true Sci Ship with 5 Sci Console slots and that is why I switched from the regular version as soon as my fleet unlocked the appropriate shipyard tier.

Edit: It is also important to consider that I don't hold scoreboard numbers in high regard. The exception being the final score. Damage and kills mean absolutely nothing to me, as long as the escort flying my wing has 15 kills and top damage
Kinda surprised the saucer sep Oddy didn't work for you, thought it was supposed to have a solid turnrate.

I've run a similar varient (dual TBs PSW) on the KDF side (vet ship now, used to be brel).

While I haven't seen it yet and it has a long cooldown, I'm a bit concerned what the stun duration will be like w/the T5 Sci skill bonus. This gets back to the AMS KDF abuse potential of 5 BCs each decloaking next to a fed ship and hitting PSW/AMS/TB(R), SNB(s) w/e ff damage combo.

I can see the Fed side doing nasty things w/photonic torps/psw and photonic doffs.

But, I guess I should stop beating this dead horse lol.

Edit: Thx for the follow up.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 851
# 65
01-05-2013, 12:03 PM
I would like to retract my earlier statement about the next Rep system being the point at which power creep becomes a huge issue for enjoyable PvP.

What I should have said was, Power Creep will become a huge issue as more and more people gain access to high tier rep and starbase gear. P2WSucks, I apologize to you, you were quite obviously correct.

In the past 3 days, I haven't played 1 fun match. They have all been horrible, spam-filled, elite-shielded, broken doffed, lulzfests. Cryptic apparently doesn't care, at all, about the effects their new toys have when used on other players. They are like bussard collectors for fun, they just take it right out of the environment. Sure, the people using them are having fun, but nobody else is. In the cases where both sides are using them, I don't see how anyone could find enjoyment in that.

Hopefully S9, the alleged PvP season can do something to change things, but at this point I'm refusing to get my hopes up too far.

I'm out, see you guys around... maybe on Caustic Valley (I love that map).
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,671
# 66
01-05-2013, 01:03 PM
i would take broken TBR spamming over having to face some one with that god damn placate passive. never has anything sucked more enjoyment out of pvp then trying to fight someone with that.
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