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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,213
# 61
01-05-2013, 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavhax View Post
[...]
DHCs, and Single beams are balanced well. If I can score top damage on a TSI premade with a beam tacxcelsior and not have to realistically worrying about dying in my chosen ship then the power is there. [...]
Those numbers tell nothing. Really, nothing. If you do 500 k damage to a target and it does not die, then your dps was too low to make a difference. Do 60 k damage to the same target and have a kill, and you win. You need to look at what you kill, not at those numbers.

And that's sort of what happens in a SBA/DHC comparison.

But I guess you, being so new, just don't know that yet, right.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 127
# 62
01-05-2013, 03:21 PM
Which is what ACT is for.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,213
# 63
01-05-2013, 03:24 PM
Any tool will lead you to false conclusions like yours above if you fail to take into account the relevant factors.

Do a PvE test: Use a Klingon cruiser (because it can equip DHC's) and send it on a PvE mission, a short one, such as Traellus system repair, for two times: Once with a SBA build, once with a DHC build. Count the time to finish the battle in both cases. Wonder why the results are so different.
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,841
# 64
01-05-2013, 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavhax View Post
You'd be surprised really. It's all about maxin that GDF bonus

No not yet. The thought of giving cryptic money makes me queasy. did it get an ensign tac or still ens eng?
oh i know, believe me i know. had quite the duals with hilbert the other day, inspired by this thread. when we went excelsior vs excelsior, it repeatedly came down to me damaging him a lot more with my singles, and him being able to use GDF sooner and roasting me with galor beams.

you only need 1 module for that ship, and i think they are only like 1.1 mil on the exchange, or they were. or was that the lock box keys? if they are that cheap i'll just mail one to you, you need to be rolling in style! the 3rd ensign eng is ok, at the very least you can have ET1 to clear VM, the number 1 killer of tac captains.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Those numbers tell nothing. Really, nothing. If you do 500 k damage to a target and it does not die, then your dps was too low to make a difference. Do 60 k damage to the same target and have a kill, and you win. You need to look at what you kill, not at those numbers.

And that's sort of what happens in a SBA/DHC comparison.

But I guess you, being so new, just don't know that yet, right.
for once, you have a point, the same one i was trying to make. but soph for your own good, don't rile up anyone with mav in their name, ok? you have been down that road before lol
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,213
# 65
01-05-2013, 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
[...]
you have a point, the same one i was trying to make.
The imbalance is there. While, yes, you can sort of clear spam with a FAW build, that is only because spam is, well, rather squishy, and can easy be cleared by, sort of, any damage at all.

It is just so easy to see that even a BortasQu', the slowest turning Klingon cruiser out there, still becomes a better ship just by using DHC's, everything else being the same. The direct comparison will demonstrate this to anyone.

Something should done there. The devs builds NPC escorts as beam boats.. they clearly do not intend to be the DHC escort to be essentially the only viable general-purpose option.

Quote:
but soph for your own good, don't rile up anyone with mav in their name, ok? you have been down that road before lol
Are you implying a user who was explicitly forbidden to post on these forums had illegally returned? No, that cannot be. I am sure. Even if someone was named similarily, that new person would certainly behave much better, and would be respectful and arguing reasonably instead of trying childish defamation campaigns or anything. Right?
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
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Last edited by sophlogimo; 01-05-2013 at 03:44 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 127
# 66
01-05-2013, 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
The imbalance is there. While, yes, you can sort of clear spam with a FAW build, that is only because spam is, well, rather squishy, and can easy be cleared by, sort of, any damage at all.

Who said anything about it being just a faw situation.

ACT tracks everything, real time DPS, vs healing, Resistance vs raw damage.
I recommend you try it.

And probably stop flying bad builds with only 6 beams or some garbage
FAW is something you switch to, when you see spam. It's not a DPS dealing skill on it's own merit.

Last edited by mavhax; 01-05-2013 at 03:46 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,213
# 67
01-05-2013, 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavhax View Post
Who said anything about it being just a faw situation.

ACT tracks everything, [...]
But apparently, it doesn't help you thinking about the numbers.

Seriously, do the test I proposed.
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 127
# 68
01-05-2013, 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
But apparently, it doesn't help you thinking about the numbers.

Seriously, do the test I proposed.
I know more about DPS in my pinky toe than you've probably ever dealt there.

I -have- done testing of Cannons vs Beams.

And for fed cruisers, beams are your best bet for damage dealing, due to several overriding factors in 5v5. Especially Range.

KDF cruisers DHCs are better because they operate on average with more tac skills, and the ships are much more agile. However their sustained durability is not what a Fed Cruisers's is.

Which DDIS should know all to well by now.

Also LOL if you think a bortas is better with DHC than beams.

The bortas is garbage either way. But it's less so with beams.

Last edited by mavhax; 01-05-2013 at 03:50 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,213
# 69
01-05-2013, 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavhax View Post
I know more about DPS in my pinky toe than you've probably ever dealt there.
Well, you are new, so how could anybody know what you know? But what you claim ist just... far away from the game's reality.

Quote:
I -have- done testing of Cannons vs Beams.
Then you should test again. What counts is kills, not logs. We do have some bugs in this game, it is entirely possible that some logs may be giving false or incomplete data. You can, however, rule such things out by counting the time to kill.
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...lM_skuv4#t=584
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 127
# 70
01-05-2013, 03:59 PM
I play with a stopwatch too you know.

Overall Match Time comparos have been done too.

And Fedwise, the Beam Array beats Single Barrel Cannons, Every Time.

Beams work better on fed cruisers, because their turn rate sucks. Which means it is much more difficult to maintain TOT. The Excelsior is pretty much the only one where Single Cannons become comparable in live pvp (not just duels).

Especially when you start Overcapping Weapon Power. Which due to how cannons drain weapon power, compared to beams, cannons get next to no benefit for it, while beams damage output is significantly better at over capped capacity.

KDF side, Bortas and Negvar aside (Neggy does good with Singles, or even all torpedoes upfront though) the DHC wins because they can actually move enough to use them properly. But KDF cruisers have a sacrfice in durability. And against Zippier ships like Escorts you are totally reliant on zone control to maintain damage on an Escort as a KDF Cruiser.

Try this.

Go buy a Failaxy X. Go put DHCs on it. 4 upfront. See how laughably bad your damage will be compared to a Beam Assault Cruiser. Go check it out in ACT so you can see the actual DPS dealt. You'll decloak get maybe 3 volleys in.. and then never be able to hit your target again. If DHCs really were Teh Awesome, the Fail X would be the best cruiser the feds have since it can actually run DHCs. But it's not. Instead it's the worst one you could choose. even if you go down to single cannons. Because it's too slow to use them, and the other cruisers Excelsior aside aren't much better.

Last edited by mavhax; 01-05-2013 at 04:05 PM.
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