Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 203
# 201
01-05-2013, 05:56 PM
I agree with you 100%. I find that most of the time the biggest whiners are part of a very small, very vocal minority. I get my ass handed to me by lock box ships on a regular basis when doing pvp, but you dont see me on here calling for a lockbox ship nerf. Instead I learn how to fight.

The tricobalt mines are powerful, but they aren't the be end all. They have a one minute cool down between uses, and if you are unable to get your mines close enough to the enemy, thats a wasted volley. You cant give me any good reason why trico mines should be nerfed
SGT Milton Monzon, SGT Alexander Fuller, SGT Michael Bartley, SGT Martin LaMar
Rest in Peace Brothers
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 345
# 202
01-05-2013, 05:57 PM
Sad to see that my build has caused this much problem for people lol. Never expected using it in STFs to cause this, it even kept its nick name i gave it.

220k is highest single crit ive gotten with a tricobalt mine, x4. I never used it in pvp cause any 1/2 decent pvper should FAW scatter volley all the mines almost every time. Guess my fun led to this sorry all.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 203
01-05-2013, 07:10 PM
Just recently heard about the Tricobalt nerfs and thought I add my 2 cents.


What I see Borticus Proposing, I don't agree with. Nerfing Damage for sake of balance? The Problem isn't the damage it's the multiple mines being spawned with Mine Patterns and people abusing it.

What Cryptic needs to do is not make more changes, but take a step back and go back to the previous Tricobalt system where one, two, or three mines can be deployed at a single time.

Furthermore, after experience Gorn and Fek'lhri NPCs using Tricobalt mines, I really think there should be an activation delay added as well.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,214
# 204
01-05-2013, 08:16 PM
I admit I almost 1 shotted Donatra on elite before when all my mines critted for 250k+ with the highest one doing 292k. Even though its possible to do this, I still don't think that its overpowered. Something like this does not happen often, and it takes a lot of points to spec into maxing all the skills needed to pull this off, and a completely dedicated build that can't do anything except use tricobalt mines and torpedos effectively.

The usual escort who is running dpb3 trico mines is not buffing it with consoles and doesn't have maxed projectile weapon specialization, he isn't hitting for anywhere near this amount, its not really a big problem. Most tricobalt mine users I see in STFs are only getting 100k -150k range per mine on crits, at most its not unbalancing anything by them doing that.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 205
01-05-2013, 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
I admit I almost 1 shotted Donatra on elite before when all my mines critted for 250k+ with the highest one doing 292k. Even though its possible to do this, I still don't think that its overpowered. Something like this does not happen often, and it takes a lot of points to spec into maxing all the skills needed to pull this off, and a completely dedicated build that can't do anything except use tricobalt mines and torpedos effectively.

The usual escort who is running dpb3 trico mines is not buffing it with consoles and doesn't have maxed projectile weapon specialization, he isn't hitting for anywhere near this amount, its not really a big problem. Most tricobalt mine users I see in STFs are only getting 100k -150k range per mine on crits, at most its not unbalancing anything by them doing that.
Until you realize that the most health a player can have is around 60k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 345
# 206
01-05-2013, 11:23 PM
And they said its less a pve issue and more a pvp issue. And i can completely see how getting nailed by 250-1million dmg could ruin someones day in pvp. But honestly you shouldnt be landing almost any mine/heavy torpedo hit in most pvp battles.

There is enough x ACC weapons w/ FAW/CSV going to nail them. And while insanely powerful you might be dmg wise you still die like everyone else. A simple fix would be to just set a player dmg reduction to tricobalt mines.

But like most things cryptic will go and tip the scale 95% out of balance and nerf them into uselessness.

I loved my build and i made it specificly for STFs though i never bothered to fully max all the dmg out on it as 1mill in a pass i think does the job. STF wise it honestly needs to be left alone for the most part. In KAE it allowed me to take low dps groups and still get the optional. People could then play the ships they wanted low dmg or other wise without getting gipped for cryptics poor idea of gameplay.

I could take 3 cubes, 12 generators, 3 transformers, while 3 guys killed 1 cube 4 genrators 1 transformer and probes, leaving last guy to get probes on other side. Then i could fly back blow 30-50% off the gate in a pass and continue on from there.

You want to make the game dmg based then nerf high dmg builds because of pvp that you say is dead? K... lets toss out that this build isnt going to 1 shot everything in the game player,npc, or otherwise. Make Tri mines cooldown 30 sec, leave dmg as is, and make it not work with dispersal patterns. That means we could drop 4 mines a min with 2 launchers with less mines to target pvpers could cry less about their dead aspect of the game, npc's could cry less that we pwned their face in one pass, and we can all go back to crying about borg instagib invis torpedos, oh thats not fixed still?

*sarcastic thumbs up*

In all fairness, how bout you really fix pvp by i donno WORKING ON IT NOT IGNORING IT. No new maps, no pvp gear, no nothing in 3 years. Ya mines are the problem heh.

Last edited by jtoney3448; 01-05-2013 at 11:26 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 81
# 207
01-05-2013, 11:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtoney3448 View Post
And they said its less a pve issue and more a pvp issue. And i can completely see how getting nailed by 250-1million dmg could ruin someones day in pvp. But honestly you shouldnt be landing almost any mine/heavy torpedo hit in most pvp battles.

There is enough x ACC weapons w/ FAW/CSV going to nail them. And while insanely powerful you might be dmg wise you still die like everyone else. A simple fix would be to just set a player dmg reduction to tricobalt mines.

But like most things cryptic will go and tip the scale 95% out of balance and nerf them into uselessness.

I loved my build and i made it specificly for STFs though i never bothered to fully max all the dmg out on it as 1mill in a pass i think does the job. STF wise it honestly needs to be left alone for the most part. In KAE it allowed me to take low dps groups and still get the optional. People could then play the ships they wanted low dmg or other wise without getting gipped for cryptics poor idea of gameplay.

I could take 3 cubes, 12 generators, 3 transformers, while 3 guys killed 1 cube 4 genrators 1 transformer and probes, leaving last guy to get probes on other side. Then i could fly back blow 30-50% off the gate in a pass and continue on from there.

You want to make the game dmg based then nerf high dmg builds because of pvp that you say is dead? K... lets toss out that this build isnt going to 1 shot everything in the game player,npc, or otherwise. Make Tri mines cooldown 30 sec, leave dmg as is, and make it not work with dispersal patterns. That means we could drop 4 mines a min with 2 launchers with less mines to target pvpers could cry less about their dead aspect of the game, npc's could cry less that we pwned their face in one pass, and we can all go back to crying about borg instagib invis torpedos, oh thats not fixed still?

*sarcastic thumbs up*

In all fairness, how bout you really fix pvp by i donno WORKING ON IT NOT IGNORING IT. No new maps, no pvp gear, no nothing in 3 years. Ya mines are the problem heh.
Sarcastic thumbs up to cryptic. Plus one.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,929
# 208
01-05-2013, 11:40 PM
Everyone saying these shouldn't work in pvp cause CSV FAW ect ect... are not really considering that the mines are all MESed.

Sorry CSV and faw are both not all that effective as in general you don't see them unless your with in 3k. The only reliable AOE I know of to control them is Gravity Well.

They are much more effective in pvp then you would expect... if you hid them in a spam overload setup with a carrier or 2 and a sci or 2 throwing out a couple spam fleets. There is a very good chance of landing these things on the Spam worst case... causing disables and shutting off Extends with no skill required. That is there real issue in PvP as I see it. If I am going to spam a bunch of tricos if I get one kill in a match thats cool and all... but in general its the annoyance of the AOE disables that will win a match for a team in a close match.

There really is no defending there mechanics as they are... if your going to put one tric mine on the back... you might as well put 2... 30s is not that bad of an out time... one Pattern will cover both launchers making for 2-8 out per min... which I will agree isn't fantastic coverage. However throw that into a typical PvP Spam field and even if 1-4 of them in that min just hit spam the AOES are going to be good enough to ensure your 1-2 kills the old fashioned cannon escort way... cause someone is going to have there extend knocked off, or there healer distracted long enough to do the deed.

As far as it being a PvP issue alone and not a PvE issue... come on I can throw them on my brel and one shot gates at will... how is that not a PvE issue. I don't think the game was designed with the intention for me to stroll up to a gate that hasn't been argoed by anyone... buff up drop 4 mines and laugh when 300k 300k 300k 300k rolls up and it goes boom.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 345
# 209
01-06-2013, 12:32 AM
There are several easy solutions to MES part as well as the rest, but cryptic will chose the most oddball over the top complicated fix they can imagine. As i said if you simply remove the use of dispersal, make it 30 sec cooldown with 15 sec global thats 1/2 the mines you can lay now in 1 min with 2 launchers and all spaced out so no massive wtf pwned moments yet still leaves them as viable weapons.

Though honestly i think people worried about 300k hits in pvp are forgetting that you can easily do 100k dmg with 4 quatum torpedos fully buffed, and 100k or 300k your just as dead. The quatums arent targetable to boot. Does it need adjusted sure, i dont like total rampage on someone in pvp but pvp is a bit of a joke in any state of the game since launch. If they really gave a *uck about pvp they would be more concerned about all that stuff not just the mines.

And sadly and easiest solution to pvp vs pve problems is a pvp % dmg reduction in pvp areas. Was something we had in SWG for a long time once it was removed it became a total spike dmg kill fest. Currently thats all pvp is here. Rather them fix the whole problem not just a symptom of it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,425
# 210
01-06-2013, 12:46 AM
This is just something I thought of at random as a possible reworking of tricobalt mines.

Apply the ammo mechanic of the Omega torp to tricobalt mines, say with a maximum of 4. Reload time can be reworked by the devs or suggested by the players. Maybe 60s, to match the current deployment rate, and entering matches with one charge slotted.

Although this would involve removing Dispersal Pattern Alpha, it does avoid chain-crits resulting from multiple deployments with this ability.

Dispersal Pattern Beta could be nerfed this way. To work with the ammo mechanic, it would only deploy any remaining ammunition in the launcher. In other words, let's say DPB3 is used. Since it has a maximum of 4 mines, if there are 4 charges, it will still deploy the maximum of 4. However, if there are only 1 or 2 charges, DPB3 will still only deploy 1 or 2. The net effect will be that players will have to wait a longer between DPB shots.
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