Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 971
# 61
01-01-2013, 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
That's my point exactly. It doesn't matter whether the Borg are alive or not, it doesn't matter what rights they have, they're a menace that only seeks to consume and destroy. That in and of itself necessitates their destruction.
You are missing the bigger moral dilemma that Picard eventually saw regard Hugh which he himself (and Seven of Nine) embodies. Yes the Borg are a menace. But each drone disconnected from the Collective is an individual. Condemning the entirity of the Collective into oblivion means the destruction of trillion of innocent individuals as well.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 62
01-01-2013, 04:57 PM
A Drone is a Dead person

removal of all implants is almost invariably Fatal
And even if you do the mental damage remains

wiping out the entire Borg collective would save more lives than it would take
AND would make me feel safer in my bunk
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,154
# 63
01-01-2013, 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
A Drone is a Dead person

removal of all implants is almost invariably Fatal
And even if you do the mental damage remains

wiping out the entire Borg collective would save more lives than it would take
AND would make me feel safer in my bunk
I still disagree that drones are not alive, but I do know that I'd rather die than become one. I imagine the same would be true of most of the Collective's population. And if you think about it, there's really only one sentient entity at work in the Collective.

So if I had the chance to wipe out the Borg Collective, I'd probably take it. For our sakes, and for theirs as well.
Say NO to mandatory Arc!

Last edited by psycoticvulcan; 01-01-2013 at 08:13 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,894
# 64
01-01-2013, 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordfuzun View Post
You are missing the bigger moral dilemma that Picard eventually saw regard Hugh which he himself (and Seven of Nine) embodies. Yes the Borg are a menace. But each drone disconnected from the Collective is an individual. Condemning the entirity of the Collective into oblivion means the destruction of trillion of innocent individuals as well.
And letting them exist, dooms trillions more.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 144
# 65
01-05-2013, 10:08 PM
As long as they're still part of the collective, they are enemy combatants and have to be fought as such. That doesn't mean they're dead or un-people (regardless of what the CIA thinks), it's just a kind of unpleasant truth.

Break the local vinculum net though, and they become refugees to be rescued. The Fed has the medical tech to physically roll back assimilation, so once a drone population is disconnected from the collective, there is a moral obligation to treat them as people and refugees in need of care. A connected drone is to be treated as an enemy by default, a disconnected drone is to be treated as a wounded friendly by default, simple as.

That also means that the strategic objective should always be to disconnect rather than kill if at all possible. It will probably be necessary to kill to accomplish that, but that should always be the end goal in mind.

Lingering physical or mental trauma is not a factor. That's just daft. Try telling a wounded vet in a wheelchair that he should've been left to die where he fell because he's clearly no good for anyone now. Try telling a r4p3* victim that she shouldn't even bother trying to put her ordeal behind her and getting her life back, because even the faintest lingering twinge makes her as good as catatonic rubble in your eyes. Trauma happens, sometimes people recover fully, sometimes they don't, but a functional recovery (like Picard) is anything but a lost cause simply because they can't get absolutely totally 100% back to the way they were before.

*Sorry for the 1337-speak BS, but that is NOT a word that should be censored.

Last edited by connectamabob; 01-05-2013 at 10:16 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 66
01-06-2013, 12:28 AM
Once Borg NEVER human again

Picard could read borg minds and borg can read his
bimbo of nine was sent into voyager specifically BY the queen as a step to becoming a better weapon

and theres a difference between a veteran and a unisol
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,198
# 67
01-06-2013, 03:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by connectamabob View Post
As long as they're still part of the collective, they are enemy combatants and have to be fought as such. That doesn't mean they're dead or un-people (regardless of what the CIA thinks), it's just a kind of unpleasant truth.

Break the local vinculum net though, and they become refugees to be rescued. The Fed has the medical tech to physically roll back assimilation, so once a drone population is disconnected from the collective, there is a moral obligation to treat them as people and refugees in need of care. A connected drone is to be treated as an enemy by default, a disconnected drone is to be treated as a wounded friendly by default, simple as.

That also means that the strategic objective should always be to disconnect rather than kill if at all possible. It will probably be necessary to kill to accomplish that, but that should always be the end goal in mind.

Lingering physical or mental trauma is not a factor. That's just daft. Try telling a wounded vet in a wheelchair that he should've been left to die where he fell because he's clearly no good for anyone now. Try telling a r4p3* victim that she shouldn't even bother trying to put her ordeal behind her and getting her life back, because even the faintest lingering twinge makes her as good as catatonic rubble in your eyes. Trauma happens, sometimes people recover fully, sometimes they don't, but a functional recovery (like Picard) is anything but a lost cause simply because they can't get absolutely totally 100% back to the way they were before.

*Sorry for the 1337-speak BS, but that is NOT a word that should be censored.
Agreed on all points
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,154
# 68
01-06-2013, 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
bimbo of nine was sent into voyager specifically BY the queen as a step to becoming a better weapon
And the Queen's plan failed, because Seven refused to help her. She rejected the Collective. She rejected her past and tried to focus on her future instead. That's human enough for me.
Say NO to mandatory Arc!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,894
# 69
01-06-2013, 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post
And the Queen's plan failed, because Seven refused to help her. She rejected the Collective. She rejected her past and tried to focus on her future instead. That's human enough for me.
Selfishness is the most human trait of them all.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 70
01-07-2013, 02:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post
And the Queen's plan failed, because Seven refused to help her. She rejected the Collective. She rejected her past and tried to focus on her future instead. That's human enough for me.
She succeeded

look at the map today

Borg as far as the eye can see
Borg in starfleet
Borg in the KDF
Borg Everywhere

and they would be extinct had it not been for the "infiltration units" like seven , hugh , picard , neelix etc
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