Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 120
# 21
01-06-2013, 06:05 PM
Tac beam would be fine if it was 360-degree so you couldn't have it end early
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 22
01-06-2013, 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Here's the problem w/that. The resists perform too well @ 99 skill points since it's balanced around 99 skill points. Not matter how many points are put into Flow Caps for example the returns are such the resists skill points needed are much less.
I think they most likely balanced it around what endgame NPCs can do.



Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
This brings up another issue, Sci Skills and their counters have bad Tier assignments. Flow Caps, it a T1 skill and it boosts weapon procs as well a great number of skills. Power insulaters is a T2 and it resists nearly all skills. It's too easy to spec into either of those given the power of them.
I think what some see as an issue, the Devs most likely specifically did on purpose to ensure that most players had easy access to broad categories of useful powers that buff several useful (and in some cases universal, such as with Starship Weapons Training) abilities/functions.

This gives an average baseline for performance, and its not until the upper tier skills that you spend heavier for specialization.


I don't think the system is perfect, and I don't understand why some skills are so expensive in comparison to others (Why is PI T2 when ID is T4? Why is Flow Caps T1, but Graviton is T3?) but I'm guessing that's the reason skills like Flow Caps, Shield Emitters, Weapons Training, etc were placed towards T1.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 01-06-2013 at 07:33 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 365
# 23
01-06-2013, 07:15 PM
standardized function

tach beam
range 10km
180 degree forward targeting area

lvl 1
3% of shield drained of cap per pulse 10 pulses

lvl 2
4% of shield drained of cap per pulse 10 pulses

lvl 3
5% of shield drained of cap per pulse 10 pulses


flow capacitor increases drain abilities every 3 points raises ability 1%
Insulators Decreases drain ability every 3 points raises drain resist 1%

or something like it
There is no QA there is only ZUUL
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 24
01-06-2013, 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
I think they most likely balanced it around what endgame NPCs can do.





What you, and others, see as an issue the Devs most likely specifically did on purpose to ensure that most players had easy access to broad categories of useful powers that buff several useful (and in some cases universal, such as with Starship Weapons Training) abilities/functions.

This gives an average baseline for performance, and its not until the upper tier skills that you spend heavier for specialization.


I don't think the system is perfect, and I don't understand why some skills are so expensive in comparison to others (Why is PI T2 when ID is T4? Why is Flow Caps T1, but Graviton is T3?) but I'm guessing that's the reason skills like Flow Caps, Shield Emitters, Weapons Training, etc were placed towards T1.
How many times do you see end game NPCs even use Sci Boff based powers that are resistable, much less effectively? Power insulators is a T2 it doesn't take much to invest 6 and use a deflector or console to get to 99+ points if needed.

Not sure why you brought up weapons I was refering to Sci Skill Tree.

Off the top of my head Flow Caps boosts Tet proc, Tet Glider Proc, Polaron Proc, Tach Beam, Energy Siphon, Plas Leech, CPB basically nearly all power and shield drains. Generally things w/no hard counters. It should be T4 for all it does. You seem to agree w/this why defend the status quo?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 25
01-06-2013, 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
How many times do you see end game NPCs even use Sci Boff based powers that are resistable, much less effectively?
The main one would be the Borg shield drain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Not sure why you brought up weapons I was refering to Sci Skill Tree.
I brought up Starship Weapons Systems because it also shows up at T1 (in the Tac Skill tree) and buffs every single weapon type, all energy and all kinetic weapons.

It is a broad application, high value and low investment cost skill.

It was a comparison, and a postulation on how the devs arranged the skill tree putting widely useful skills (like flow caps) at T1 or 2 and more specialized and (in their estimation) powerful skills at T4/5


Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Off the top of my head Flow Caps boosts Tet proc, Tet Glider Proc, Polaron Proc, Tach Beam, Energy Siphon, Plas Leech, CPB basically nearly all power and shield drains.
Yes that's why I think they put it at T1. Because it is a broad application power that allows for low investment cost for high value - this is my theory on how the skill tree was designed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
You seem to agree w/this why defend the status quo?
I think I see the value in a skill tree that allows the broadest swath of the player base to make low cost investment for high value - it effectively sets a baseline.

In fact, not only are they low cost and high value, they are also almost mandatory (the low Tier skills) - you almost need to go out of your way to skip certain skills at T1 to unlock higher Tiers.

They can guarantee all players at least have some level of baseline investment into certain skill types.

The current skill tree was very specifically designed to minimize min/maxing benefits and add value to broadly investing skill ranks.


I agree that PI shouldn't instantly neuter all Sci boff powers, while also inexplicably being not as effective vs. pets and drain consoles.

I agree that many Sci powers are in desperate need of improvement in both PvE and PvP.

As far as making flow caps a higher tier power, I think that is beyond the realm of what will realistically happen in this game in any timeframe that could be considered "soon".

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 26
01-06-2013, 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
The main one would be the Borg shield drain.




I brought up Starship Weapons Systems because it also shows up at T1 (in the Tac Skill tree) and buffs every single weapon type, all energy and all kinetic weapons.

It is a broad application, high value and low investment cost skill.

It was a comparison, and a postulation on how the devs arranged the skill tree putting widely useful skills (like flow caps) at T1 or 2 and more specialized and (in their estimation) powerful skills at T4/5




Yes that's why I think they put it at T1. Because it is a broad application power that allows for low investment cost for high value - this is my theory on how the skill tree was designed.




I think I see the value in a skill tree that allows the broadest swath of the player base to make low cost investment for high value - it effectively sets a baseline.

In fact, not only are they low cost and high value, they are also almost mandatory (the low Tier skills) - you almost need to go out of your way to skip certain skills at T1 to unlock higher Tiers.

They can guarantee all players at least have some level of baseline investment into certain skill types.

The current skill tree was very specifically designed to minimize min/maxing benefits and add value to broadly investing skill ranks.


I agree that PI shouldn't instantly neuter all Sci boff powers, while also inexplicably being not as effective vs. pets and drain consoles.

I agree that many Sci powers are in desperate need of improvement in both PvE and PvP.

As far as making flow caps a higher tier power, I think that is beyond the realm of what will realistically happen in this game in any timeframe that could be considered "soon".
The Borg shield drain isn't a Boff based power, it's a custom power. It also has a hard counter. Further, perceptivably resist effect from PI isn't noticable vs that thing if they work at all.

The Weapon T1 skill isn't apples to apples to Flow Caps. There are additional skills to invest in to improve weapons' damages. There isn't in the case of Flow Caps. That's w/the exception of some Boff powers' secondary effects no one really cares about. Further, Flow Caps actually improves weapons' type procs and other procs.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 27
01-06-2013, 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
The Weapon T1 skill isn't apples to apples to Flow Caps. There are additional skills to invest in to improve weapons' damages. There isn't in the case of Flow Caps. That's w/the exception of some Boff powers' secondary effects no one really cares about. Further, Flow Caps actually improves weapons' type procs and other procs.

I don't think it needs to be apples to apples to make a comparison and general statement about the design of the entire skill tree across all 3 disciplines.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 28
01-07-2013, 05:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Or you can stop trying to drain the shields off of NPCs with tachyon beam and use tetryon, or... heaven forbid... use SST? Or ES? Since both of those are far more effective for dealing with mobs.

I would also recommend tetryon weapons if you want shields to go that badly. And only 85 aux? No wonder you aren't doing much of anything to shields.
He isn't asking for suggestions, he's saying the power is underpowered and needs to be buffed, and it does.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 374
# 29
01-07-2013, 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowestlvl View Post
standardized function

tach beam
range 10km
180 degree forward targeting area

lvl 1
3% of shield drained of cap per pulse 10 pulses

lvl 2
4% of shield drained of cap per pulse 10 pulses

lvl 3
5% of shield drained of cap per pulse 10 pulses


flow capacitor increases drain abilities every 3 points raises ability 1%
Insulators Decreases drain ability every 3 points raises drain resist 1%

or something like it
Huh, so I'd deal 5% x 10 = 50% + 6 FC = 2% + 5%

70% of target's shields drained total....holy crap. Might be a bit much, especially on things like a borg tactical cube...

Although, on the flip side, in PvP, I'd take the base 50%...

that's actually a pretty good idea. In PvE, excellent, in PvP, fair.
More anything?
"MORE EVERYTHING!"
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Foundry Works: Uncharted
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 30
01-07-2013, 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by romuzarii View Post
Which once more proves why Cryptic desperately needs to separate your beloved PVP from PVE so **** can stop sucking ass in PVE.

I was kind of thinking this...


To be honest I'm not sure that Tachyon Beam draining a thousand shield per second from players in PVP would be a bad thing. For a science ship, its officer abilities are its weapons. Having an ability that can remove meaningful amounts of shields regardless of the target's defense and shield hardness would shut down all those complaints about tanking escorts and unkillable cruisers, no? Let's not forget that tachyon beam does no hull damage of any kind and it's a boff ability with less than 100% up time, unlike the dual-cannon-toting lulzscorts.

But yeah. Tachyon beam is worse than useless in PVE. When I made my science character I was excited to see what TachB could do for a specced character flying a custom built drain ship. My excitement did not last long. Same story with Delta Flyers as combat pets.

Tachyon beam? More like tickling beam.
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