Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,277
# 71
01-06-2013, 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raj011 View Post
why wont it be ready for the GENprise? If its going to take 20 years then that is more than enough time, 5 year tests should do then have it manufactured and make variations.
Well, the main selling point for the project is that it can be done using technologies we have right now. Cold Fusion is rising, but it'll still be a while before it can be done on the scale required. That said, it's never been easy to predict technological advances. If it can be perfected in time, that would be great.

Something else that could have potential uses for an Enterprise: graphene. Not only is it the strongest material currently known to exist, but it's also capable of absorbing the harmful radiation the Enterprise would be exposed to outside of Earth's atmosphere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj011 View Post
Also I just found this on my facebook http://www.space.com/19110-starship-...-petition.html
BTE had been getting a lot of media coverage in the last few days. It's driven the petition up to a total of almost 5,000 signatures. Only 20,000 to go...
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
-- Q
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 669
# 72
01-06-2013, 07:44 PM
Well If I won the Lottery and had 100 mil I would build the Enterprise here on Earth and make it into a hotel where people could come and visit live out thier Star trek dreams and use all the proceeds to fund NASA. Neil Degrasse said that if NASA funding would have been increased by 1/4 of a penny in federal tax funding 10 years ago we would already be on mars. I know there was a Star Trek hotel in Vegas but it was not the Ship on the outside. Imagine having the Actual ship inside and out here on earth as a place to inspire Generations to come. People from all over the planet would come to walk the decks of the Enterprise. Build it here 1st. No need to have it Space worthy. Just have it look and feel like the real thing and you could make a difference in the worlds intrest in space exploration.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,277
# 73
01-06-2013, 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsnake721 View Post
Well If I won the Lottery and had 100 mil I would build the Enterprise here on Earth and make it into a hotel where people could come and visit live out thier Star trek dreams and use all the proceeds to fund NASA. Neil Degrasse said that if NASA funding would have been increased by 1/4 of a penny in federal tax funding 10 years ago we would already be on mars. I know there was a Star Trek hotel in Vegas but it was not the Ship on the outside. Imagine having the Actual ship inside and out here on earth as a place to inspire Generations to come. People from all over the planet would come to walk the decks of the Enterprise. Build it here 1st. No need to have it Space worthy. Just have it look and feel like the real thing and you could make a difference in the worlds intrest in space exploration.
I kind of think an Enterprise-shaped hotel would be seen as a fad. The point of building a ship in space is that it will amaze and inspire people - "We can actually do that with today's technology? What else have we been missing?"

Plus, this ship would provide a massive boost to the space industry. It would establish permanent bases on Mars and the moon, explore the oceans of Europa by launching hydrobots, and even help divert asteroids that could threaten Earth. And it would also spur more private space agencies and create tourism.
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
-- Q

Last edited by psycoticvulcan; 01-06-2013 at 07:50 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 74
01-07-2013, 04:33 AM
5,000! it was 3,000 and something when i checked yesterday! WOW Also i found out that there is another plasma type electrical engine being made I think it is called the pulsed plasma something.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,660
# 75
01-07-2013, 09:48 AM
People. If you like Trek. JUST SIGN THE darnTHING! (Excuse my language) I got my mum doing it, I got my Skype profile advertising it. COME ON! LIKE IT OR NOT, JUST DO IT FOR THE LOVE OF TREK!!!
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.

I hope STO get's better ...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 76
01-08-2013, 04:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jumpingjs View Post
People. If you like Trek. JUST SIGN THE darnTHING! (Excuse my language) I got my mum doing it, I got my Skype profile advertising it. COME ON! LIKE IT OR NOT, JUST DO IT FOR THE LOVE OF TREK!!!
Indeed, also some people say the Enterprise it is not structurely (spelling) sound because of the neck and nacelles but we could strength the hull on those sections or choose another ship from star trek e.g. Sovereign class, does not have the neck and has, I think thicker nacelles or maybe the definet design or intrepid design there a lots to choose from but this is a start. For exploration ship the Consistuation design is one of the best designs. Or maybe the millennium falcon is another minus the bridge on the side. Looks good but not good idea in real life. We should be throwing ideas on here, helping make this it a reality. So everyone join in. Bring your ideas to the table.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,277
# 77
01-08-2013, 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raj011 View Post
Indeed, also some people say the Enterprise it is not structurely (spelling) sound because of the neck and nacelles but we could strength the hull on those sections or choose another ship from star trek e.g. Sovereign class, does not have the neck and has, I think thicker nacelles or maybe the definet design or intrepid design there a lots to choose from but this is a start. For exploration ship the Consistuation design is one of the best designs. Or maybe the millennium falcon is another minus the bridge on the side. Looks good but not good idea in real life. We should be throwing ideas on here, helping make this it a reality. So everyone join in. Bring your ideas to the table.
It's not going to be an exact replica of any "real" Enterprise; it's just going to have the saucer-neck-hull-nacelles configuration.

The BTE forums are probably the best place to throw ideas around. They're a bit slow to load, but you'll be able to discuss your ideas with experts on specific areas.
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
-- Q
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 419
# 78
01-08-2013, 05:43 AM
Well, as the petition for building a Death Star demonstrates, it's nice to wish for things. Wishing is easy and cheap. To actually make it happen....that requires realistic concerns be met.

As said in a certain well-known sci-fi novel (paraphrased): "When they voted for the impossible, the disasterously possible happened."

Even the more realistic designs in such series as Babylon 5 and Space:1999 are beyond our level of ability or will at the moment (we are going back to capsule spacecraft, for crying out loud!). The technical and engineering challenges inherent in a ship like a Constitution class ship are just too great for the current time.

We can't even operate a Shuttle program, or appropriate the kind of resources this would need without people in Congress chomping at the bit to grab to cancel it in favor of things to boost their own nest. And the Shuttle program is/was the first step required for this kind of in-orbit building, and a small fraction of what it would take to build something like this. Just look at the ISS, how long it took just to build, how many resources it took from multiple nations, and that it's a fraction of the size of what is proposed here. And that is just for a Station that doesn't have to go anywhere.

Even if you manage to build it, that's only the first step. You have to -maintain- it. That means fuel, atmosphere, food, water, spare parts, ect. on a continual basis. Just look at the operational requirements for something like an aircraft carrier, and you might get an idea the kind of logistics we're talking about here, multiplied by a thousand for the need to get it all up into orbit instead of just running a truck out to it.

And that assumes the people building it do so to the highest standards. Space is an unforgiving environment, where mistakes don't result in the need to replace parts, but the loss of the entire ship and everything on her (and possibly more if it happens to involve other spacial objects or come down on Earth somewhere). Do you really think the people involved in building a ship like this with such huge costs wouldn't cut corners somewhere? That the technologies involved would not fail or have unforseen faults? All of which would result in at least ship-threatening conditions? Just look at the various space programs and the numbers and types of accidents to get a pretty good idea how much Murphy loves spaceflight done on a budget or with technology not fully done.

I'm all for building a ship like this, but not before we are ready to do so. And right now, this petition isn't being done on the basis of readiness, but on the desire to see a favorite fictional ship made real. We aren't ready, and may never be, and using the petition system for something like this smacks of simple personal gratification and a desire to have fun with the system of Government. This isn't a game....you are exersizing sovereign franchise when you invoke this mechanism, and people's lives will be on the line because of it.

And if any of you are thinking I am anti-Trek for saying all this, I will simply repeat what a certain Starfleet captain stated: "The first duty of a Starfleet officer is to the truth!". If you want to be worthy of what Star Trek was truely about, then follow that quote.

Last edited by danqueller; 01-08-2013 at 05:54 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,027
# 79
01-08-2013, 05:53 AM
imo, this idea is las vegas in space. And thats where ideas like this belong...and actually nearly were done. http://collider.com/star-trek-enterprise-vegas/157942/
too bad actually.
Go pro or go home
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,277
# 80
01-08-2013, 06:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by danqueller View Post
(we are going back to capsule spacecraft, for crying out loud!)
We certainly shouldn't be. Space planes are being developed: the Skylon is in development, as are others. NASA's own X-33 got cancelled because of a design flaw, but it was later discovered that this could be fixed. But instead of reviving the project, they decided to go back to the sixties and do another capsule rocket. It's just a souped-up Saturn V that does nothing to reduce the cost-per-pound of getting stuff to orbit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danqueller View Post
The technical and engineering challenges inherent in a ship like a Constitution class ship are just too great for the current time.
I don't agree. I think that we're fully capable of doing it if we set our minds to it. Pretty much all the technology needed for it already exists; we just need to scale it up appropriately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danqueller View Post
We can't even operate a Shuttle program, or appropriate the kind of resources this would need without people in Congress chomping at the bit to grab to cancel it in favor of things to boost their own nest. And the Shuttle program is/was the first step required for this kind of in-orbit building, and a small fraction of what it would take to build something like this.
The shuttle could be called an early space plane prototype. With the new ones like the Skylon coming in, we should be able to bring stuff to space a lot more cheaply than before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danqueller View Post
Just look at the ISS, how long it took just to build, how many resources it took from multiple nations, and that it's a fraction of the size of what is proposed here. And that is just for a Station that doesn't have to go anywhere.
Considering they had a very limited budget, it's no wonder it took so long. If they had more money to work with - and even better rockets like the Sea Dragon, which would have been able to lift 550 metric tons per launch at $600 per kilogram - it could have been done a lot quicker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danqueller View Post
Even if you manage to build it, that's only the first step. You have to -maintain- it. That means fuel, atmosphere, food, water, spare parts, ect. on a continual basis. Just look at the operational requirements for something like an aircraft carrier, and you might get an idea the kind of logistics we're talking about here, multiplied by a thousand for the need to get it all up into orbit instead of just running a truck out to it.
Considering the potential gains, I think it's acceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danqueller View Post
And that assumes the people building it do so to the highest standards. Space is an unforgiving environment, where mistakes don't result in the need to replace parts, but the loss of the entire ship and everything on her (and possibly more if it happens to involve other spacial objects or come down on Earth somewhere). Do you really think the people involved in building a ship like this with such huge costs wouldn't cut corners somewhere? That the technologies involved would not fail or have unforseen faults? All of which would result in at least ship-threatening conditions? Just look at the various space programs and the numbers and types of accidents to get a pretty good idea how much Murphy loves spaceflight done on a budget or with technology not fully done.
That's always going to be a problem, in any large project. All we can really do is set firm guidelines and enforce them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danqueller View Post
I'm all for building a ship like this, but not before we are ready to do so. And right now, this petition isn't being done on the basis of readiness, but on the desire to see a favorite fictional ship made real. We aren't ready, and may never be, and using the petition system for something like this smacks of simple personal gratification and a desire to have fun with the system of Government. This isn't a game....you are exersizing sovereign franchise when you invoke this mechanism, and people's lives will be on the line because of it.
The petition isn't asking them to build it. Just to investigate the feasibility. If it passes that test, we have something that could work. If it doesn't, the design will be refined until it is.

If the petition doesn't make the deadline, or if it gets dismissed, then we'll just keep refining the concept ourselves. We can even do a private study if we have to.
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
-- Q

Last edited by psycoticvulcan; 01-08-2013 at 06:29 AM.
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