Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 582
# 141
01-07-2013, 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trellabor View Post
Unfortunately, this still applies under the new system.
Yes, but now he won't get immediately rewarded for it. He will have to sit and do nothing for a lot of games. For all that, I might as well play and get the non-Need/Greed loot and lend a hand. Under the old system, one could do nothing and get lucky. Now, one would have to do nothing alot of times, and that gets boring to the point where you might as well try to kill something. And at least you have to do other things if you want to quickly put resources into the Rep projects.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
What in the hell are you even talking about? Pay for what? I spent about 35 or so hours of in game time to acquire my T5 rep and that's it. I made the marks and dilithium to pay for a big chunk of gear in the process. That is a significantly smaller investment than any other MMO I've ever played. It didn't cost me a damn dollar either.
I think he means the resources needed. We can all agree that the prices either border on or exceed the outrageous level, even if dilithium and consumables are easy to come across. It still is alot and does require grind.
Most JJ Trek hate = IDIC fail.
Quote:
Most who don't like the new Star Trek either didn't like TOS, don't remember TOS, or didn't see TOS

Last edited by lordagamemnonb5; 01-07-2013 at 01:47 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 985
# 142
01-08-2013, 07:20 AM
I pretty much have to agree with everything lordagamemnonb5 has been saying. I find this idea that the old system rewarded skill baffling. You could be the most hardcore STF player in the group, and the system would just as easily give that Proto drop to the noob who just played their first elite ever. Your DPS didn't matter, and your team support and communication skills certainly didn't matter. Skill didn't matter then, and it doesn't matter now.

Would it be nice if there were a system that generally rewarded skilled players? Sure. But how do you judge that? Can't be DPS, people already rightly complain that this system unfairly favors Tactical/Escort captains in Fleet Actions. DPS is easy to measure though. If you did a lot of damage, then you as a TacScort did your job well. An Engineer might be encouraged to tank by rewarding damage taken (vs times killed), but we all know that it's tough for a cruiser to consistently pull aggro in this game since they don't have threat control skills. And Science, that's a total nightmare. You can reward heals, but there's no way to know how effectively they were used. Were they used on the right person at the right time, or just thrown out at random? A computer can't tell that. How much did crowd control affect the outcome? Again, no way a computer can measure that.

So, outside some sort of competition with GMs or skilled players serving as judges, I don't see how player skill can be accurately and fairly rewarded. If skill is not going to matter in either case, then simple progress toward a set goal is preferred to random chance.

There is one way that skill does matter that I haven't seen anybody bring up. If you are a skilled player, then your presence raises the success rate of any group you join. You will, on average, finish faster and hit more optionals. If you suck on the other hand, you lower the group's success rate. You will take longer to finish and miss more optionals. The incentive, therefore, to getting better is that you will get your gear faster. Faster as in less playthroughs (due to optionals) and faster as in time spent (due to faster completion times).
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,583
# 143
01-08-2013, 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shockwave85 View Post

Would it be nice if there were a system that generally rewarded skilled players? Sure. But how do you judge that? Can't be DPS, people already rightly complain that this system unfairly favors Tactical/Escort captains in Fleet Actions. DPS is easy to measure though. If you did a lot of damage, then you as a TacScort did your job well. An Engineer might be encouraged to tank by rewarding damage taken (vs times killed), but we all know that it's tough for a cruiser to consistently pull aggro in this game since they don't have threat control skills. And Science, that's a total nightmare. You can reward heals, but there's no way to know how effectively they were used. Were they used on the right person at the right time, or just thrown out at random? A computer can't tell that. How much did crowd control affect the outcome? Again, no way a computer can measure that.
Maybe by adding a Most Valuable Player vote in the end. You can't vote for yourself, but you have to vote for someone before leaving. Like a window in the middle of your screen, can't miss it. The one with the most vote win the biggest loot, the second slightly less, etc... OFC, everyone have something in the end, and if you are a complete noob, you will still be able to buy something, someday.

So far, in the games I've seen that use it, it works pretty well, people usually vote for the healer, a friend or the best. Sometimes for a newcomer, so he can have more stuff more quickly, and become more effective.

Also, in Global Agenda, I remember a fansite with awesome stats, that was very accurate in determining who was the most efficient player of a game. It was not perfect, granted, but it was really accurate, and usually the one with the most point was a skilled player.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 123
# 144
01-08-2013, 11:29 AM
Season 7 when it first came out drove me away to SWTOR for a bit, but I'd still 'check in' daily, or at least every other day as I do lead a fairly large fleet and need to make sure its running. Once they started to have dilithium as a reward again in STFs, and also eventually making the Investigate Officer Reports Assignment fairer considering the console clickers were removed, and lastly the Winter Wonderland Event, I decided to slink back. I still don't play as much as I used to a year ago, but more then I did most of last autumn.

Do I like the reputation system? In short: No, but in the longer term its not really that terrible, but still it could be better. Projects could be cheaper and not cost as much supplies, even a 20-25% reduction would be nice especially in the latter tiers, also the 20 hour project completion time seems long for a personal project, but that could just be me. For a fleet project it works fine as your dealing with larger more difficult task that involve an entire fleet. Lastly there's just too many dilithium sinks, and now an energy credit sink that's a little too vacuuming on the ECs. Plus dilithium does take longer to earn, which isn't very favorable if your someone that only plays for maybe an hour or 2 each day on most days. Plus the whole reputation thing has made doing STFs less appealing as you can play just about any one to get marks, which can make it seem like each one gets less people that queue up for them and a few of the STFs are just plain impossible unless you have top gear and a top notch team, which isn't the case most of the time.

So add that to the list of other bugs that have been mentioned, the Exchange, Fleet Events Calendar, Missing Torps amongst other things. All which originally drove me away for awhile along with the grindfest that is endgame, and it makes it hard for the game to have the same appeal as when I first started playing. Are they slowly starting to fix stuff? Yes, but there's alot more that needs to be done. Finish the KDF faction for one thing and Nerf the Tholian Red Alerts a little more. Its still very hard to win those things despite the slight fix they made to them.

I just hope for STO's sake that Season 8 is much better then Season 7, which seems to be the season of fail, but that's perhaps not everyone's opinion.
Wishes for STO in 2014:
Borg Armor/Implant Bodysuits for Existing Liberated Borg Captains, Dominion/Cardassian Faction?, More STFs and end game content, More Undine and Iconian story progression, More Sectors and Sector Blocks. Also at least 25% reduction of new bugs added to the game.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 540
# 145
01-08-2013, 06:49 PM
Most, if not all, of the season 7 problems were fixed, and fixed pretty quickly, to be honest.

Obnoxiously long rep projects were trimmed down, good rewards were returned to STFs.

I do wish they'd have made it more location based though. Forced people to go to DS9 to turn in projects or something.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 908
# 146
01-11-2013, 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiveman5 View Post
....
I just hope for STO's sake that Season 8 is much better then Season 7, which seems to be the season of fail, but that's perhaps not everyone's opinion.
Season 7 was a season of pain for the older veteran playerbase - refreshing for those who fully embrace PWE & the F2P model, along with the newcomers to the game.

The more seasoned crowd frowned upon season 7 with extreme prejudicism, since it introduce us to more grind and drove us to diversify our means of Dilithium acquisition.

I fear for season 8, yet at the same time looking at it as a possible bright spot, let me explain:

I have always loved the KDF side, more than I do the Federation. If season 8 means that the KDF will possiby be given its much deserved treatment, resulting in becoming a fully fledge Faction, than I am on board.

However; This is what I fear - I fear that it will also carry with it some of Season 7 mentality in the sense of Ultimate Grind.

Fed players will most likely whine & moan that the Federation may not be receiving a substantial amounts of changes in season 8 - Let the KDF have its due. - Nuff said
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