Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,630
# 11
01-08-2013, 12:54 PM
There aren't diminishing returns on consoles except for the armor consoles (which get odd - the armor has diminishing returns so that the effective HP is linear, but then there's a cap and a couple exceptions where certain things will stack differently and it's a whole other thread).

Where a lot of people think they're getting diminishing returns is that they equip a console that says +18%, but only see about a 6% increase. The consoles stack linearly with skills and other stats, and they all count as a percentage of base damage, not total damage.

Last edited by hevach; 01-08-2013 at 12:56 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,206
# 12
01-08-2013, 02:20 PM
Lots of good advice in this thread!

I think the best ship at the moment for raw DPS output is the Breen Chel Grett Warship. Its 8 weapon mounts, DHC support, and escort-class turn speeds make it a formidable ship. Here's mine, configured with Mk XII Borg set, Mk XII PLasma weapons, Romulan Hyperplasma Torpedo launcher, Kinetic Cutting Beam, and all the high end univeral consoles it can support:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ps988d55b8.jpg

I sometimes replace the Breen Energy Dampening weapon with one of the new Romulan Sci Consoles for extra plasma DPS, but I usually switch back when I'm killing boss-style ships.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,829
# 13
01-08-2013, 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticfistcoh View Post
Also, I read stacking consoles gives diminishing returns.
This is utterly false. Anyone who says this other than in the context of Damage Resistance doesn't know what "diminishing returns" means.

+All Beams and +All Cannons consoles are obsolete junk. Pick an energy type, and stick with it. All your tac console slots should be for consoles boosting that energy type.

If you want highest damage on a cruiser, you have two options.

1. Broadside - every weapon should cover that arc, meaning beam arrays (270), cutting beam (360), Wide Angle Quantum Toepedo Launcher (180), or Ferengi Missile Launcher (180). Turrets are the weakest weapons in the game, you don't want those. Junk the cannons and normal torpedoes, since the arcs don't overlap with the rest of your equipment. Your broadsides will thus allow you to bring all your weapons to bear, and if your BOff and power settings are built right, you'll keep your power (and thus damage) high.

Use only beams (aside from kinetic weapons I listed) so that your abilities like Beams Fire At Will can affect more weapons.

2. Front - your guns are pointed towards the front. That means cannons in front, with a torpedo of your choice, and turrets in the back (maybe with the cutting beam). Due to the poor turn-rates of most cruisers, the only ones I'm aware of where this is viable is the Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit and Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit.

Use only cannons (aside from the kinetic weapons) so that your abilities like Cannon Rapid Fire or Cannon Scatter Volley can affect more weapons. Turrets count as cannons.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 156
# 14
01-08-2013, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by earwigvr6 View Post
Playing them ok now with my cruiser role but finding the people that tend to be in the game with me just sit and shoot the easy things such as Generators and Gates etc... Leaving me in a cruiser with a lack of firepower to try and take down the Probes,Spheres,Cubes etc....
That's because taking down the generators and gates are the main priority in order to win the mission. As a cruiser with secondary DPS, your job is to blast the probes, especially in KASE.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,082
# 15
01-08-2013, 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topset View Post
Solid advice here. Personally I prefer 3 Dual Heavy Cannons + 1 torpedo up front with 3 turrets in the rear, but it's all personal preference.

Have 2 versions of Rapid Fire and alternate between them every 15 seconds. I like to have 2 versions of High Yield and alternate between them every 15 seconds also.

Emergency power to shields and Hazard Emitters are vital boff abilities for survivability. Personally, I run two versions of emergency power to shields, and alternate between them every 30 seconds. Means you run with high shield power all the time, it's fab.
For escorts:
Bad advice...why use torps....they are overated and waste of energy. DHCs or regular HCs (4) and the rest of them turrets is a solid DPS built. Torps are old school from years ago....stay with the times specially with PvPs
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,206
# 16
01-08-2013, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crusader2007 View Post
Bad advice...why use torps....they are overated and waste of energy. DHCs or regular HCs (4) and the rest of them turrets is a solid DPS built. Torps are old school from years ago....stay with the times specially with PvPs
Torps use zero energy >_<

Cannons are better damage dealers for PVP due to heavy player reliance on shields, but for PVE, torpedoes are better ranged damage dealers. The new Romulan Hyper-plasma torpedo launcher is a excellent ESTF gate buster at 8km+ distance. It can kill an elite Hive tac cube using plasma fires to bypass its shields. I'm not aware of any cannon builds that do the latter at this time.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,694
# 17
01-08-2013, 03:54 PM
For the OP, an easy trick to upgun your cruiser instead of having to buy a whole new ship is an Emergency To X power cycle. You equip two Emergency Power To Weapon 1 and two Emergency Power To Shields 2 or 3, then alternate Weapons and Shields every 15 seconds (a keybind helps a lot). It gives you the tankiness cruisers are known for and the extra weapons energy is a big help to those power-draining beam broadsides. It isn't the end-all of DPS or cruiser piloting or anything, but its a good thing to know how to do and should help you a lot while you learn the more complicated stuff.
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4
# 18
01-08-2013, 10:44 PM
would a significant amount of dmg be lost from 1 tac console at max level?

they are something like 30% dmg to xxx dmg type. so, for instance, the difference between a full cannon setup on either a fleet patrol which has 1 less tac console compared to a fleet tactical retro which has 5xtac consoles.

is the wasted ensign tac boff in the retro worth the dmg of 1 console?
or... is the ensign eng in the patrol worth the added survivability?

5tac consoles and wasted ensign in full cannon build

or

4tac, extra eng console, extra eng ensign

this is of course assuming no torps, no beams and alrdy slotting tac team 1 x2 in the other 2 tac boffs.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,277
# 19
01-08-2013, 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticfistcoh View Post
Still learning the subtle points of the game but a mechanic questions on damage calculations.

If at 50 weapon power your weapons do the listed damage and if at 100 power its does double, how does the percent increase from skills, consoles or other buffs affected the numbers? For example ..

If at 50 power a weapon does 100pts and at 100 power it does 200pts. How would a console with a 20% increase affect the damage calculations would it be 120pts (@50 power) and 240pts (@100 power)? I am used to CoH numbers affecting just the base value and not tested the mechanic of STO.

Also, I read stacking consoles gives diminishing returns. Do points invested in skills, consoles and other buff when added together give diminishing returns or treated differently for coming from different sources?

Celtic Fist
Base Damage = Weapon Type + Console bonus + Skill bonus + Weapon Level/Quality bonus

Actual Damage = Base Damage * Weapon Power Mod * Damage Mod (Attack Pattern Omega/Alpha for example)

You also have your crit multiplier for average DPS and firing speed modifiers like from cannon rapid fire if you wish to get technical. Along with energy drain mechanics and something else I'm forgetting which just gets annoying, thats right range modifier. This is why those little escorts, well any DHC packing ship, make cruiser beam damage look so pathetic. They get to stack the highest and most multipliers on to the highest damaging weapons.
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4
# 20
01-08-2013, 11:52 PM
ok so im no math wiz.. how much more dmg is 1 console at say 30%? its not 30% overall dmg but what is it really?? 5% or 10%?? maybe more, maybe less???

i would like to know if its a big difference between those 2 ships. fleet patrol and fleet tactical retro. at the moment im not sure if 1 console is worth the boff i wouldnt use.
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