Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
# 41
01-08-2013, 02:35 PM
Y'all seem to forget that we talk about digital 'goods' here. So we can just create them without costs.

That means, instead of a fleet tax, we make it a fleet bonus.

You are in a fleet and get 960 dilithium and a bonus of 9.6 dilithium is automatically generated and put into the fleet.

BAM! fixed

You lose nothing and the fleet fills up that dilithium slowly but steady, just by members playing normally.

You are welcome (with John Hodgeman)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,127
# 42
01-08-2013, 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarkirian View Post
Ya, basically that. Every game that I have played that had a Tax system in their Guild/Organization/Fleet w/e, the mandatory Tax has been unpopular. Players don't like their character income taken any more than irl people do. Groups that force a tax upon it's member have usually been very unpopular groups. "What?! You guys Tax? i'm out!" *so-and-so left the group*
Well certainly. Who do such leaders think they are exactly, deciding where other people's money goes, that the underlings need to just do as their told or else be forced to? I'll donate what I can to the projects that I think are a good idea, and zip for the ones that make me roll my eyes. Don't need some self-styled aristocracy making my decisions for me, particularly when we disagree. Free association FTW.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 174
# 43
01-08-2013, 03:05 PM
Perhaps this is naive, but.... why not have people in your fleet who actually support & contribute to it, instead of having to tax them?


(I mean, isn't that the point of joining an organization like that? To be part of it and support it? That's certainly why I haven't joined fleets, or guilds in other games - I don't want my play time to be beholden to a group of other people, so that my time is not my own. The idea of "joining" a guild, but being all offended when they expect you to actually put your resources/time/etc into the group, is strange to me.)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 486
# 44
01-08-2013, 03:26 PM
I very much doubt a fleet could successfully pull off a taxation system. It would just drive too many players away, and it wouldn't help foster a culture of cooperation.



Taxes in real life are paid for services, such as protection and civic improvements, that can't be provided otherwise, and are provided to everyone. They're involuntary because all the citizens of a locality benefit from those services, and so are obligated to financially support them. If taxes are too high and/or benefits too low, people will often move elsewhere.



A fleet would have to provide quite a lot to justify a tax. They'd have to provide more than just the projects (which many do for free). And on top of that, many 'free' fleets are quite generous, and any taxed fleet would have to be even more helpful. It's just impossible to provide a good deal for fleet members with a tax.



Taxes are quite attractive to the recipients, since it often gets more funds than voluntary donations. But the only ethical way to do it is to very clearly and obviously announce the tax to everyone, and only tax those who stay. But by then you would probably get less dilithium than donations
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 165
# 45
01-08-2013, 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Yeah, a fleet tax is pointless.

The only thing a fleet really needs from its' members (aside from participation in fleet activities) is contributions to fleet projects.

This is already gated by who is allowed to contribute and how much they contribute.

The people who are already contributing have enough of a drain on their resources. They shouldn't be penalized.

The people who aren't contributing aren't earning fleet credits. They can't buy anything worth buying from the fleet store, and they can be locked out of the fleet store in any case. At best, they get free use of some of the fleet facilities like the transwarps and those don't cost anything once the upgrade is completed.

A mandatory tax just encourages people to leave, unless it's the same mandatory tax everywhere... which Cryptic won't do because then they have to take the heat for it.
I think you are wrong here that taxes are only evil. In RL people are paying taxes for public services and the same goes slightly changed for a fleet, were people pay the DL tax for access to the fleet ressources.

The transwarp gate is a poor example. Yes the use is free until it is build, but building it is extremely costly and with the provisions you essentially brought a double payment into the game. First members have to pay for provisions, then they have to pay to use the provisions and this system is even more unfair then anything like 10% tax.

Also I am not a fleet leader, but I donated a lot of my personal DL into this black hole called starbase , for a long time we left the fleet store open to lower ranks but since was abused we are now going to same route as other fleets. Access is restricted to lower ranks until they show activity and willingness to contribute.

Last edited by ascaladar; 01-08-2013 at 04:03 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 821
# 46
01-08-2013, 07:35 PM
Use the leader board to ensure compliance with contribution requirements.

Boot anyone who does not comply.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 58
# 47
01-08-2013, 11:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anazonda View Post
Yea.... NO!

Very simple...

I am here to ENOJY the game, and spend the resources I, as in ME, decided to spend, and I would not want a single of my fleet members being forced to anything other.

I will dissolve my fleet, before I support this stupid idea.

If you want to pay taxes in a game, make your own.

I'm here for fun too, but I enjoy helping my fleet.

Seems this tax system could be set from 0% to say 60% Your fleet could choose to go with the every man for himself approach while others could tax 2, 45, 10, whatever percent in order to allow everyone to contribute to the well being of the fleet as a whole.

If folks are going to leave a fleet that charges 5% than fleets like yours set at 0 will gain more folks

Personally I like the Idea. beats pointing out what our fleet needs and trying to get folks to feel obligated to pitch in. A small tax would be totally painless and do the most good for the fleet as a whole.

Fleets that want to, set it at 0% and opt out.

Beside, those who are taxed would be receiving fleet credits in exchange anyway so they are also helping themselves too.

Pretty simple and works for everyone.

Last edited by selraxxx; 01-08-2013 at 11:44 PM.
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