Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7
# 101
12-23-2012, 07:02 AM
Strongly agree with the original post that something needs to be done.

Sitting on a "penalty" right now because someone went rogue on Into the Hive and managed to step over the edge, respawn and then refuse to transport out of the cell before the game even began. Net result, couldn't even start the match.

That was the second time in as many days that have logged in, joined the queue, waited and not even been able to start a match.

Why is it I should have to have a "penalty" when I was forced to leave because someone else couldn't be bothered to play the game in good spirit.

Does anyone at whoever run this game actually think about such features before they just go ahead and implement them?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 43
# 102
01-09-2013, 05:59 AM
I will be posting screenshots of AFK offenders sometime this afternoon (see original post). The screenshots will include full character information and the handle of the player as revealed through the 'report to GM' option.

If you have an AFK that you would like to add to the list, you are welcome to post here or send me a private message. I will do my best to keep the list current and accurate.


Purpose:
1) to illustrate the extent of the ongoing AFK problem so that a solution might be implemented
2) to warn players so that they might make an informed choice about who they group with.
3) to warn AFK'ers that their inaction has been observed.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 397
# 103
01-09-2013, 07:14 AM
I'm sure all the vote/kick/ data tracker have been covered having speed read the thread. All sound idea but as the thread's also suggested they are either too harsh because they can impact on the innocent or they can be circumvented quite easily.

Really for 1+ person to idle seems folly you're actually going to take longer than if you'd participated and likely get less reward but obviously people seem to think it is and in some cases yes you can get rewards for doing nothing at all.

I don't know if Cryptic can do much about it especially since they made the idle out of server 1 hour from 15 minutes (so can't see them undoing that unless the server traffic is low enough that they can undo this).

Two main points seem to be possible;
Data tracker for the whole match including moving, healing, damage etc. The more they track the more likely they can respond but that's hard to do and an intensive load on the server trying to find the idler. Basing it on a couple of variables is a waste of time and effort.

Team vote. If the other 4 vote kick then the guy gets kicked. This will make it harder for one person with a grudge to kick and it would take 3 yes' to actually do it. A lot of other multiplayer games do this approach;
create vote
f1 - yes
f2 - no

It's not perfect but at least cryptic can work it in to existing code much like the need/greed.

I would suggest Cryptic put some actual manpower behind the GM's and actually deal with repeat offenders but that's even less likely than the data tracker. You can report people for all eternity (can recall one guy in pvp who I must have reported dozens of times a day) and like any feedback/bug reporting Cryptic seems to do nothing about it.

Of course innocent people can't leave because they will likely get penalised and the idler being the last to go might actually get away with it. Best thing to do is avoid pug altogether...
Kirk's Protege - 19/11/2012
Kirk's Protege Jr - 30/05/2014
[1/5 5:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 964780 (1581938) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 397
# 104
01-09-2013, 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by je11yfish View Post
I will be posting screenshots of AFK offenders sometime this afternoon (see original post). The screenshots will include full character information and the handle of the player as revealed through the 'report to GM' option.

If you have an AFK that you would like to add to the list, you are welcome to post here or send me a private message. I will do my best to keep the list current and accurate.


Purpose:
1) to illustrate the extent of the ongoing AFK problem so that a solution might be implemented
2) to warn players so that they might make an informed choice about who they group with.
3) to warn AFK'ers that their inaction has been observed.
I advise against this due to forum policy blah blah blah and ironically the one time Cryptic will jump on someone like a tonne of bricks while the idlers keep idling.
Kirk's Protege - 19/11/2012
Kirk's Protege Jr - 30/05/2014
[1/5 5:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 964780 (1581938) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 623
# 105
01-09-2013, 02:07 PM
Reading a few of the responses, it may seem that AFK'ers come in two catagories:

Griefers who don't giv a hoot and,

People who started playing under one system and now have to adapt to play under another.

By that, I mean people with a bajillion alts. They would come home, do clickies, convert to Zen, buy stuff. With S7 came no clickies and reduced dilithium across the board. It would seem S7 almost encourages AFK, especially with the events on a random schedules, reduced rewards across the board, the hard cap on refinement etc. People who have a bajillion toons and not enough time on their hands (don't see how that is possible with more than 4 toons though) pretty much have to AFK to grind the dilithium on their alts in order to buy things at Tiffany's...I mean the Rep system.
Most JJ Trek hate = IDIC fail.
Quote:
Most who don't like the new Star Trek either didn't like TOS, don't remember TOS, or didn't see TOS
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,206
# 106
01-09-2013, 02:48 PM
I still believe that using player peformance numbers to identify AFK'ers is a cleaner, less abusable solution. Using the formula below, you can reduce AFK rewards to a very small value, making AFK'ing completely non-profitable, while increasing reward towards active players:

Individual Player Reward = (Player_damage_total + Player_damage_healing) / (All_Player_Damage_Dealt + All_Players_Healing)) * Standard loot payout per player.

As Player performance (measured by Player Damage Dealt + Damage healed) increases, so does their reward. By dividing the Player's Individual Performace by the Sum of all player performances, you get their performance ratio. This ratio can then be used to distribute end-of-match rewards and add weight to random rolls.

If the above does not sound fair to under-performing players, then the player-performance-ratio can still be used to identify AFK'ers or inactive spectators since they will have almost no damage nor healing. In a 5 man map, players should be attaining 5% or higher performance ratio's individually. An AFK'er won't even break the 1% mark.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 107
01-09-2013, 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordagamemnonb5 View Post
pretty much have to AFK to grind the dilithium on their alts in order to buy things at Tiffany's...I mean the Rep system.
No they don't, it just means it will take longer to get what they want. But the fact that the rewards have been lowered, is in no way an excuse to AFK farm.

If someone doesn't want to help they shouldn't get any sort of reward.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 623
# 108
01-09-2013, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptvanor View Post
No they don't, it just means it will take longer to get what they want. But the fact that the rewards have been lowered, is in no way an excuse to AFK farm.

If someone doesn't want to help they shouldn't get any sort of reward.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I am against AFK as well. I'm just bringing up the possibility that the game encourages such behavior.
Most JJ Trek hate = IDIC fail.
Quote:
Most who don't like the new Star Trek either didn't like TOS, don't remember TOS, or didn't see TOS
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 262
# 109
01-09-2013, 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shar487a View Post
I still believe that using player peformance numbers to identify AFK'ers is a cleaner, less abusable solution. Using the formula below, you can reduce AFK rewards to a very small value, making AFK'ing completely non-profitable, while increasing reward towards active players:

Individual Player Reward = (Player_damage_total + Player_damage_healing) / (All_Player_Damage_Dealt + All_Players_Healing)) * Standard loot payout per player.

As Player performance (measured by Player Damage Dealt + Damage healed) increases, so does their reward. By dividing the Player's Individual Performace by the Sum of all player performances, you get their performance ratio. This ratio can then be used to distribute end-of-match rewards and add weight to random rolls.

If the above does not sound fair to under-performing players, then the player-performance-ratio can still be used to identify AFK'ers or inactive spectators since they will have almost no damage nor healing. In a 5 man map, players should be attaining 5% or higher performance ratio's individually. An AFK'er won't even break the 1% mark.


I would not be in favor of that formula, for two reasons:

1. A less-equipped player who is doing their best should not be penalized for if their ship simply cannot perform at the same level as someone else. For example, if my ship is equipped with all MK XII purple gear in every slot, and Joe's ship is equipped with XI blues, there's a good chance that I'm going to do more damage. He might die more too, which would lower his damage / healing totals too. So, because I'm "over-gearing" him so much, I get all the loot. How is he supposed to improve his ship if he's always stuck with the worst loot?

2. Different types of ships are geared for different roles. My escort has a lot of burst damage, but we all know that cruisers typically have higher sustained damage. So in the end, a cruiser will most likely have the most damage in the STF, meaning whoever has the strongest cruiser wins. If that's the case, why play escorts at all?

Why? Because Escorts have burst damage. While Mike pounds away steadily in his cruiser, I blow a bunch of cooldowns and take out one Sphere, then repeat on the next. Mike is doing his job by keeping a steady fire rate on (and probably the attention of) the majority of the ships, while I'm doing the actual killing. And Sam over in his science ship is making sure all of us stay alive, or keeping the baddies from doing anything effective, or giving us all extra power.



Really, the only formula you need is "Did the player participate for more than 50 - 75% of the STF? Yes = loot. No = no loot, what you would have gotten is split among the players who did."

I still want bare feet.... on ALL costumes.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,206
# 110
01-09-2013, 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuatela View Post
I would not be in favor of that formula, for two reasons:

1. A less-equipped player who is doing their best should not be penalized for if their ship simply cannot perform at the same level as someone else. For example, if my ship is equipped with all MK XII purple gear in every slot, and Joe's ship is equipped with XI blues, there's a good chance that I'm going to do more damage. He might die more too, which would lower his damage / healing totals too. So, because I'm "over-gearing" him so much, I get all the loot. How is he supposed to improve his ship if he's always stuck with the worst loot?

2. Different types of ships are geared for different roles. My escort has a lot of burst damage, but we all know that cruisers typically have higher sustained damage. So in the end, a cruiser will most likely have the most damage in the STF, meaning whoever has the strongest cruiser wins. If that's the case, why play escorts at all?

Why? Because Escorts have burst damage. While Mike pounds away steadily in his cruiser, I blow a bunch of cooldowns and take out one Sphere, then repeat on the next. Mike is doing his job by keeping a steady fire rate on (and probably the attention of) the majority of the ships, while I'm doing the actual killing. And Sam over in his science ship is making sure all of us stay alive, or keeping the baddies from doing anything effective, or giving us all extra power.
This is why I drafted a formula measuring the combined damage and healing output as the player's performance metric. Sure, Escorts can output higher damage than cruisers or sci, but they won't have the healing numbers of a cruiser nor sci-ship.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cuatela View Post
Really, the only formula you need is "Did the player participate for more than 50 - 75% of the STF? Yes = loot. No = no loot, what you would have gotten is split among the players who did."
There's no way to measure the above without factoring in actual damage and healing totals. Otherwise an AFK player can just go full impulse to the edge of the map while running auto-macros to simulate live keyboard input.

As mentioned in my last post, an AFK'er won't even pass 1% of total damage and healing without actually maintaining steady damage and healing output. The reason is because each map requires a minimum 5 players. If all players perform equally well, then each player will score 20% of the total damage and healing. That number goes down as more players participate. Scaling rewards prevents players from playing the first minute, then going AFK for the remaining 14+ minutes.

If scaling rewards are not desired, then the player performance ratio can still be used as a cut-off, with >= 1% = loot, <1% = no loot. There is no way to get <1% unless the player AFK's the bulk of the match.

Last edited by shar487a; 01-09-2013 at 05:32 PM.
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