Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 81
01-10-2013, 12:31 PM
Well, I suppose it's a matter of perception. I'm not saying what happens in "high level play" (I prefer "team play") is the be-all end-all but by the same token it'd be a grievous error to balance the game around the common denominator. I mean when you see a snoozer who's using Sci Team for main healing, triple photon torps and none of his Captain powers, his problem is far more fundamental than how he's managing his Defense score.

I guess it'd be one thing if snoozers/Sci tubs couldn't keep themselves safe because their Defense was tanking in organized play, but that just really isn't the case; team play can only extrapolate from the game's basics that apply anywhere but that doesn't mean everything just becomes harder, faster, stronger once you leave pug land. Hell, the most brutally unkillable fortress of a ship in the game (Recluse) has a terrible Defense capacity and it's super vulnerable to holds and CC. It just tanks it all anyway and throws it back because it has such an ungodly shield/hull setup. A well-built Ody isn't quite as monstrous but it's damn close at times.

Say that you're a snoozer getting t-beamed by an escort. There's a great sequence of steps that'll keep you fine and dandy so long as you're quick on the buttons (this is less for Thissler and more for readers):

1. Is Tac Team up? If not, wait for the 'scort's very first offensive buff and hit it or call for a copy (you can keybind this if you're strictly pugging);

2. Hit EPtS and TSS and switch to a 25/75/25/75 setting. As he ramps up the heat, hit more resists in turn, along with a shield battery. If he goes full beast mode with all guns roaring, hit Scattering Field/Sci Fleet or RSF/Eng Fleet and another TT. If all else fails, hit RSP and manually distro (in all honesty you'll rarely need to hit RSP, use it as a last resort).

3. His major offensive buffs have now worn out and he's a meek little kitten, while your powerful resists are still respectably chiming off of CD.

In all of that, you'll notice there's no need for a hold immunity. It's because on a snoozer your Defense score just isn't worth speccing into; you don't need it, and the powers useful for speed tanking (PH, AP:O) don't have good team synergy.

It's true that I said Defense is a poor stat to base your ship around. However, this is why 'scorts and tiny ships are far more dependent on their healers than healers are on their escorts: snoozers just don't need Defense to keep themselves breathing, while 'scorts need everything they can get to make the most out of their measly EPtS1 and stuff.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 89
# 82
01-10-2013, 01:00 PM
I'm probably going to get flamed for this but here goes anyway.

At the moment we have fleet consoles that add 'extra' effects to weapons fire, remove threat, increase it, ect. Why dont we get fleet engineering ones that reduce a targets defense? Not like 20% or anything, some low amount so that people dont just stack 4 or 5 of them.

Hell we have alot of consoles no one ever uses.

Check this.

Remove Defense as a captain/ship stat (meaning captains and ships can not increase it with points or speed)

Add +Defense as a stat on consoles (Like how the fleet ones are)
Add -Defense to target on consoles.

This way people who want to stack def can, but it can be countered by people willing to stack -def rather than +def.

Probably alot of holes in that, but programming/game balance (in mmorpgs anyway) isnt something I do alot of
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 83
01-10-2013, 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
I think they've broadened the Escort definition to include the Destoyers/Hybrids Cryptic has introduced this last year or so.

W/that pool Aux2batt opens things up. Also, not counting doffs the more flexible boff layouts allow for PH/TBR to be included if needed.

Good points.

I think completely maxing the hell out of that falls under this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thissler
.... aren't the wide range of gameplay experience that you say it is. Its a very narrow range. And it isn't where design decisions are made, it is where design flaws are exposed and exploited.



Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Lastly, Eng batt and Evasives and hyper-engines will break most holds.
That works for all ship classes though, correct?


Last edited by ussultimatum; 01-10-2013 at 01:31 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 257
# 84
01-10-2013, 01:30 PM
Most cruisers/sci ships tanking ability way out surpasses escorts. Eps 3 gives you 30% reduced damage for 30 seconds escorts cant have that they have 1 which gives 18%... most cruisers can have 2 copies of 3. tss reduces damage on top of that, cruisers and sci ships can have 2 copies of that plus it heals shields great, escorts are limited on the ability to run both those. Then you have the resistance consoles you can stack on cruisers more shield ones ect escorts can stack damage ones to counter those. its a give and take system. Not to mention all the hull heals you can stack on cruisers and sci ships vs escorts.


Defense bonus to escorts kinda evens out the field. The more powerful escorts like the jem attack ship have low shields 10k with the maco and a mkxii field gen my sci ship yea 21k and I can get it to go higher but it is not needed. Defense bonus; the escorts have 10% more than the other ships plus can run a omega both have evasive not much of a bonus vs tank abilities. Omega 3 gives +44.9 defense for 5 seconds... 5 seconds omg wow. With attack pat doffs if you spam it (counting that the other team has no hold abilities) you can have high defense for 5 sec every 30 sec learn to time attacks or force them to use it. Next evasive +15 is all I get from mine on my escort for 8 seconds, if time both you can be hard to hit (not imposable mind you for) 13 seconds. I still kill lots of people when they using omega or evasive most usually are using them to try to get out and still go boom.

Only reason the premades try to get people to use omega is not cause the defense bonus its for some of the other things omega does vs tactics used to get kills through the heals the sci ships and cruisers give off.

I still don't see where people are coming from saying escorts can tank as well as the other ships or sit there and take damage as well as the others. I say test this vs good players not just random pugs in a c&h. even one of thissler videos showed him using mediocre gear on a sci ship using a mediocre tank build tanking out a bop probably with good gear on it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 85
01-10-2013, 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omgrandalthor View Post
Omega 3 gives +44.9 defense for 5 seconds... 5 seconds omg wow.

Just to clarify:

APO 3 grants +44.9% defense boost, this doesn't mean that if your defense is 50% and you use APO 3 that your defense now becomes 94.9%.

Also, the defense boost in-game lasts for the duration of APO (15s).

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 86
01-10-2013, 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Just to clarify:

APO 3 grants +44.9% defense boost, this doesn't mean that if your defense is 50% and you use APO 3 that your defense now becomes 94.9%.

Also, the defense boost in-game lasts for the duration of APO (15s).
The defensive boost is only the 1st 5 seconds, the attack boost et al is 15 seconds.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 87
01-10-2013, 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post

... Snip ....

That works for all ship classes though, correct?
Not as well b/c of inertia modifiers if they are doing it from a dead stop.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 88
01-10-2013, 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
The defensive boost is only the 1st 5 seconds, the attack boost et al is 15 seconds.

That's what the mouse-over tooltip says, but if you open status and watch your defense rating the defense boost lasts the full 15s of APO.

I'm not sure which one is wrong, but I favor the status window personally.

Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 89
01-10-2013, 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
Aren't you the same guy that has numerous videos of you mauling escorts within a handful of seconds.
too bad you never see him make vids of when he gets owned every time in matches. he only records pwning noobs.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 90
01-10-2013, 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken1981 View Post
too bad you never see him make vids of when he gets owned every time in matches. he only records pwning noobs.
Was that really necessary?
Reply

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