Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 141
# 91
01-10-2013, 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
That's what the mouse-over tooltip says, but if you open status and watch your defense rating the defense boost lasts the full 15s of APO.

I'm not sure which one is wrong, but I favor the status window personally.
That's the way it looks like it works to me too.

But even if the tooltip is correct, the powerful part of AP:O is the immunity to movement debuffs. There's a big difference between my very vanilla Patrol Escort getting 42% defense (what I get at half-speed) and -2.4% defense at a dead stop. And I have absolutely nothing on that ship and captain adding to defense other than captain skills and speed -- other people have already pointed out how it's possible to add 20% or more to the baseline.

Looking at it, a basic escort using mission-reward gear with nothing else modifying defense running at ~60 engine power has ~ 20% defense at 1/4 speed, ~40% at 1/2 speed, and ~65% at full speed. That seems to be relatively balanced, and it's probably what Cryptic designed around.

The problem is that and additional 10% defense is a 50% improvement at 1/4 speed, and a 25% improvement at half-speed. If there were a trait made all your resistances 125% or 150% of what they are normally, it would obviously be overpowered. That's why Elusive and Accurate are basically required traits for space PvP.

I don't think the mechanic needs to be removed, but the highs are too high and the lows are too low. Immobilization shouldn't kill defense completely, because you are already screwed if you are immobilized; the damage buff doesn't need to be a part of it. Modifiers to defense are generally too high; a player who has 40% defense at half-speed and one who has 60% are not even in the same class, and in many cases the difference is due to traits that were chosen years ago.

If cryptic removed the defense penalty for immobilization, and capped defense at 60% or 70% including bonuses, that would go a long way to evening things out.

I kinda think that it might be a good idea to separate things like crit, accuracy, and defense from the raw percentages too. Give them a rating, or merge them into the appropriate captain skills, but make it so the biggest gains come with a few points, while piling on bonus after bonus gives diminishing returns.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 92
01-10-2013, 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Just to clarify:

APO 3 grants +44.9% defense boost, this doesn't mean that if your defense is 50% and you use APO 3 that your defense now becomes 94.9%.

Also, the defense boost in-game lasts for the duration of APO (15s).
One of us has a bug then.
Even with a maxxed Attack Patterns skill ApO1 only lasts 5 seconds. Or maybe the T3 version gets more from the skill?

Also Inktoni stated its the movement immunity that makes escorts so hatd to kill. It nullifies the escorts biggest handicap.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 01-10-2013 at 08:55 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 306
# 93
01-10-2013, 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliftona91 View Post
Was that really necessary?
i think it was the part of him only hitting noobs. Mostly because he is not hitting anyone that has good healing and resistance let alone using anything to balance shields...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 306
# 94
01-10-2013, 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
One of us has a bug then.
Even with a maxxed Attack Patterns skill ApO1 only lasts 5 seconds. Or maybe the T3 version gets more from the skill?

Also Inktoni stated its the movement immunity that makes escorts so hatd to kill. It nullifies the escorts biggest handicap.
Yea mine is only 5 sec for the defensive bonus.... HAX!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 95
01-10-2013, 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omgrandalthor View Post
Yea mine is only 5 sec for the defensive bonus.... HAX!
Lol. I want say hax, but STO is as buggy as a loaf of bread full of weevils so this doesn't surprise me.


On the idea that Thisler put forward. If Escorts have gotten a 10% bonus defense modifier to reflect thier speed in combat then cruisers need something to reflect thier shear mass being able to absorb more damage before structurial breakdown occurs.

Seems only fair, if Escorts benefit from being zippy then Cruisers need something for being massive.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 89
# 96
01-10-2013, 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Seems only fair, if Escorts benefit from being zippy then Cruisers need something for being massive.
Give them a coupon for stretch pants half off at Wal-Mart?
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 252
# 97
01-10-2013, 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omgrandalthor View Post
i think it was the part of him only hitting noobs. Mostly because he is not hitting anyone that has good healing and resistance let alone using anything to balance shields...
Well also to be fair, there are a couple of his videos in which he successfully alpha striked some of the big name people that we see in the OPVP channel. I distinctly remember him shooting down one of the Sad Pandas, Devoras of The Spanish Inquisition, and others.

So it isn't all noobs he's assassinating.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 98
01-10-2013, 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
One of us has a bug then.
Even with a maxxed Attack Patterns skill ApO1 only lasts 5 seconds. Or maybe the T3 version gets more from the skill?
Quote:
Originally Posted by omgrandalthor View Post
Yea mine is only 5 sec for the defensive bonus.... HAX!

Are you guys opening the status window and looking in:

Defense > Bonus Defense

I've just tested APO 1 & APO 3 on two different characters and the defense boost lasted the entire duration of 15s.

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 306
# 99
01-10-2013, 10:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Lol. I want say hax, but STO is as buggy as a loaf of bread full of weevils so this doesn't surprise me.


On the idea that Thisler put forward. If Escorts have gotten a 10% bonus defense modifier to reflect thier speed in combat then cruisers need something to reflect thier shear mass being able to absorb more damage before structurial breakdown occurs.

Seems only fair, if Escorts benefit from being zippy then Cruisers need something for being massive.
this is why cruisers have more hull! not cause they have stronger armor its cause you have to hit more crap to make them go boom!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 306
# 100
01-10-2013, 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Are you guys opening the status window and looking in:

Defense > Bonus Defense

I've just tested APO 1 & APO 3 on two different characters and the defense boost lasted the entire duration of 15s.
yea after i saw your post i was like...! and looked mine is 5 sec then it drops back to normal and i have omega3
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