Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 856
# 1 FAW ACC Bug
01-12-2013, 12:40 PM
Support this thread. This problem has existed for way too long.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Archived Post View Post
Problem:
When using Fire at Will the hit rate of the beams drops to the hit rate level of a common turret. The hit rate does not noticeably improve with [Acc] modifiers on the weapons.
I suspect that FAW either ignores [Acc] modifiers or uses a wrong magnitude (e.g. +1% bonus accuracy instead of +10%).

Some sample data (22,7% bonus accuracy vs 54,3% bonus defense):
Turret (common): 79% hit rate
Turret [Acc]x2: 91%
Beam array (common) with FAW2: 75%
Beam array [Acc]x2 with FAW2: 76%
This was a short test (~12min, ~470 shots per weapon), so there is some room for error, but it is already obvious that the [Acc] modifier is not being applied correctly.

How to reproduce:
1) Equip beam arrays and turrets with the same accuracy modifier.
2) Enable the combat log.
3) Shoot at a target with a fixed defense value (that is higher than your bonus accuracy) and use FAW. Keep doing this for a long time to gather useful data.
4) Look at the combat log and calculate the hit rates for beams with FAW and turrets.
5) Repeat steps 1-4 with different accuracy modifiers.
(To make it easier, you can also equip weapons of different energy types with different [Acc] modifiers, so you can test them simultaneously and still have useable combat log data since it distinguishes between different energy types (at least for FAW2).)

Expected Behaviour:
FAW hit rates with a given bonus accuracy level are equal to hit rates with other weapons with the same bonus accuracy.
These test results are from April of 2012 and should be credited to Hilbert (Mancom)
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers

Last edited by brandonfl; 01-12-2013 at 01:20 PM. Reason: added in quote since the other was a zombie
Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 710
# 2
01-12-2013, 12:59 PM
Is Cryptic really that afraid of people knowing that this bug has existed for 9 months?

Why shoot down "zombies" if not a single entry in that thread is outdated? Every single bit of information in that thread is still valid. Nothing has changed.


Maybe we need a community-run bug tracker for this game to avoid these attempts of revising history.
http://hilbertguide.com

Last edited by mancom; 01-12-2013 at 01:03 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,354
# 3
01-12-2013, 01:06 PM
This makes the engineer class a bit useless in PVP...... Please fix FAW.
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 274
# 4
01-12-2013, 01:07 PM
yea faw is garbage right now :/
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,939
# 5
01-12-2013, 01:19 PM
by the sounds of it, it can basically never miss, or have no accuracy bonus at all. they cant get it to work in between that. a beam with 95% accuracy in pvp will only have about 75% accuracy when FAW is used right now. even if it was hitting well it still wouldn't be a very good ability at dealing damage in a group, all the shots are spread out everywhere. i'd rather have a single target FAW if they do anything to it.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 217
# 6
01-12-2013, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
by the sounds of it, it can basically never miss, or have no accuracy bonus at all. they cant get it to work in between that. a beam with 95% accuracy in pvp will only have about 75% accuracy when FAW is used right now. even if it was hitting well it still wouldn't be a very good ability at dealing damage in a group, all the shots are spread out everywhere. i'd rather have a single target FAW if they do anything to it.
But then there's no AoE beam ability.

Need help with PVP? Check this thread out!
Former PWE Community Team Lead
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,046
# 7
01-12-2013, 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Is Cryptic really that afraid of people knowing that this bug has existed for 9 months?

Why shoot down "zombies" if not a single entry in that thread is outdated? Every single bit of information in that thread is still valid. Nothing has changed.


Maybe we need a community-run bug tracker for this game to avoid these attempts of revising history.
It's not about it being a bug, or it still having accurate information, it's a blanket forum rule about any thread in these forums (except stickies) established well before my time here. I agree with it because most threads necroed are way out of date, and if they are not, how do we (mods) know for sure it actually is still accurate for sure? If it's been over 30 days with no replies, regardless of the topic, restart a new one and quote the OP (as Brandon did above, with my edit of putting the quote in).

I don't know if it's a bug or not, so a systems dev would need to look into it. Can anyone confirm that CSV *is* affected by ACC?

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
Brandon "BranFlakes" Felczer | Former Community Team Lead for Perfect World Entertainment
Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 710
# 8
01-12-2013, 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
how do we (mods) know for sure it actually is still accurate for sure?
If I just repost exactly the same information in a new thread, that changes nothing about the information that others will see (other than hiding that this is a longstanding bug with zero response from Cryptic) or about how capable you are of judging its correctness.

How does that help you more than me saying "yes, everything I said the the first post is still valid"?

I get it. It's a rule and it's easier to mindlessly apply it everytime than only when it makes sense. But in this case it hides valuable information. The fact that a bug is not new is important, because it gives you an indication of when the issue was introduced into the code base.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
Can anyone confirm that CSV *is* affected by ACC?
Yes, CSV does take [Acc] modifiers into account. There are some quirks with CSV's accuracy too, but nothing major. It's certainly much closer to what it should be than FAW which simply ignores the modifiers.


(Fun fact: not only does FAW ignore [Acc] modifiers, it also uses the cannon accuracy formula instead of the one for beams.)
http://hilbertguide.com

Last edited by mancom; 01-12-2013 at 02:15 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,717
# 9
01-12-2013, 04:00 PM
8000 lines of code was it, right?

+1 on engies being useless, F@W alone won't fix engies, but this would certainly help a lot
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 270
# 10
01-12-2013, 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omgrandalthor View Post
yea faw is garbage right now :/
Hey I use FAW it's still good for clearing spam it just doesn't do much damage. Guess that's not really a big deal for a healer though.
K'eg/T'lol/Dude/Yak
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