Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 21
01-12-2013, 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
Good feedback. Let's hear more like this What powers would you suggest it to have in place of it? And would they only activate after a certain time has passed since summoning?

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
A strong tachyon beam or charged particle burst. Or a torp spread III. Something that can deal enough (shield) damage to effect at leas cruiser level NPCs too since pve is the primary use of those support ships. Hearing pvp concerns is fine, as long as we don't end up with overpriced useless support ships. I mean if they're useless in instances where we need them such as the No win scenario there's no point having such items in game.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,652
# 22
01-12-2013, 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
This is also good feedback, but there is more needed to it, if you have time DDIS In the case that they can not be removed from PvP (I'm not saying they can't, or can, just "in the case"), what would you propose to change them? They don't use these powers upon warp-in? Can only be used at x percentage? Stay around for X amount of time, and has to engage an enemy in X amount of time?

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
well if i have your attention, i certainly can expand.

first of all the last thing im going to do is suggest an npc should be nerfed. i think npc's should be 10 times more dangerous, with 10 times the number of station powers, using them as often as player ships do. i also think no npc's should be in pvp at all, that included carrier pets.

ok, i'll come half way, carriers can have pets, only if they are direct damage only pets with no debuffs, holds, drains, stuns or slows. those are player ship replacements that can be recycled so quickly that they can use them more often then players themselves.


fleet suport, photonic fleet, these call in the romulan ship consumables, they are nice, logical ideas. but they are a case of just because you can do a thing, does not mean you should. the D'd for example, say im in a bad way in a pug, and run off. 1 escort runs me down and we are about to have a bit of a duel. i call in a D'd, and as soon as it warps in it tractor beams and VMs my opponent, likely disabling weapons, engines or aux instantly. this guy is in a position were none of his counters work, and then the D'd launches 3 powerful torps, and to further stun the guy a PSW. during this time, i have free reign to decimate this guy, if im in an escort he has no hope of surviving this. basically, its like i had a player sci ship covering me and setting up a kill for me. calling it in in the middle of a slugfest? proboly wont do much, but any VM someones receives elevates their chances of dieing in the next 10 seconds to about 80%.

thers nothing wrong with the npc, its just in the wrong place, a pvp match. a pvp match were spam is the deciding factor is not pvp, its a farce. theres several problematic ships that can be called in in fleet support too. galaxy X dreads with lances and super strong tractor beams, typhon battleships with TBR that deal 3-5K damage per tic, iso charging negvars, these things can turn player interactions on their head, especially that TBR from the typhoon.

basically, they should all be done away with, or locked out of use in pvp. give the sci captains a mini tier 5 rom active, a +50 to all sci powers every 5 minutes in place of photonic fleet. make photonic fleet a consumable that can be used by anyone in pve.


what would damage only pets look like? how about this

type8/10- 2 beam arrays, faw1/2

runabouts- DBB with BO1/2, photon/quantum spread1/2. make them frigates and only usable on full carriers

fighters- same

delta flyers- 1 beam arrays, faw1/2, transphasics HY1/2

shield, hull repair drones, those are fine too.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 23
01-13-2013, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
well if i have your attention, i certainly can expand.

first of all the last thing im going to do is suggest an npc should be nerfed. i think npc's should be 10 times more dangerous, with 10 times the number of station powers, using them as often as player ships do. i also think no npc's should be in pvp at all, that included carrier pets.

ok, i'll come half way, carriers can have pets, only if they are direct damage only pets with no debuffs, holds, drains, stuns or slows. those are player ship replacements that can be recycled so quickly that they can use them more often then players themselves.


fleet suport, photonic fleet, these call in the romulan ship consumables, they are nice, logical ideas. but they are a case of just because you can do a thing, does not mean you should. the D'd for example, say im in a bad way in a pug, and run off. 1 escort runs me down and we are about to have a bit of a duel. i call in a D'd, and as soon as it warps in it tractor beams and VMs my opponent, likely disabling weapons, engines or aux instantly. this guy is in a position were none of his counters work, and then the D'd launches 3 powerful torps, and to further stun the guy a PSW. during this time, i have free reign to decimate this guy, if im in an escort he has no hope of surviving this. basically, its like i had a player sci ship covering me and setting up a kill for me. calling it in in the middle of a slugfest? proboly wont do much, but any VM someones receives elevates their chances of dieing in the next 10 seconds to about 80%.

thers nothing wrong with the npc, its just in the wrong place, a pvp match. a pvp match were spam is the deciding factor is not pvp, its a farce. theres several problematic ships that can be called in in fleet support too. galaxy X dreads with lances and super strong tractor beams, typhon battleships with TBR that deal 3-5K damage per tic, iso charging negvars, these things can turn player interactions on their head, especially that TBR from the typhoon.

basically, they should all be done away with, or locked out of use in pvp. give the sci captains a mini tier 5 rom active, a +50 to all sci powers every 5 minutes in place of photonic fleet. make photonic fleet a consumable that can be used by anyone in pve.


what would damage only pets look like? how about this

type8/10- 2 beam arrays, faw1/2

runabouts- DBB with BO1/2, photon/quantum spread1/2. make them frigates and only usable on full carriers

fighters- same

delta flyers- 1 beam arrays, faw1/2, transphasics HY1/2

shield, hull repair drones, those are fine too.
Well said mate. Spot on.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,623
# 24
01-13-2013, 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
a pvp match were spam is the deciding factor is not pvp, its a farce.
TS/THY/regular Hypers
Breen Clusters
DPB'd mines
FAW/CRF
DOFF'd GW/TR
TBR
Theta/EWP
Fermion/Inversion

...that's before you get into combat/non-combat pets, photonic fleets, support fleets, etc, etc, etc. Heck, I need more caffeine and am pretty sure I'm forgetting stuff as is.

Bio-neurals, Assimilators, Barriers, Webs, the new Breen targetable, TS Trics, THY Omega, THY Plasma, and deployable turrets...

...I'm probably still forgetting something.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 25
01-13-2013, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
Some of those craft can barely survive Quantum Torpedo Spread III, which makes the little pets more than a minor nuisance when coupled with the very short redeployment cooldown.
What you call a "minor nuisance" is the main asset of carrier ships. It shouldn't be "minor". I'm tired of reading that pets shouldn't be "a nuisance". What is a carrier supposed to do?

We fly carriers because we want pets to be able to contribute to pve and pvp matches in a meaningful way, not to be OS by a torp spread. This is ridiculous. It's definitely not "spam" but a mobile part of our ships with minor abilities.

As far as the romulan ships are concerned, i'd like to be able to use them in pvp too. Why not? While some hardcore pvp-ers won't like that, it doesn't mean it's stupid or not fun. Pvp will get RTS elements and i think it's pretty cool. I'm sure many people will. Of course those ships could use some balance because VM isn't useful outside pvp anyway. I've given some alternative ideas ealier.

I think it's time for non hardcore pvp-ers to say that we don't agree with the vocal minority always complaining about everything that isn't DHCs. Those assets should remain in game, including in pvp, because it can be a decivise tactical element. They sholdn't be made completely useless like the photonic "fake" fleet with garbage ships doing nothing. If you don't like this don't use it but don't ask for the removal of these consumables, they aren't a problem because RTS elements aren't a problem. People willing to turn STO into a FPS are.


Quote:
a pvp match were spam is the deciding factor is not pvp, its a farce.
So all the RTS games i've been playing during the last 10 years weren't pvp when i played against real people? That's the farce, mate.

Last edited by diogene0; 01-13-2013 at 09:34 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 26
01-13-2013, 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
What you call a "minor nuisance" is the main asset of carrier ships. It shouldn't be "minor". I'm tired of reading that pets shouldn't be "a nuisance". What is a carrier supposed to do?

We fly carriers because we want pets to be able to contribute to pve and pvp matches in a meaningful way, not to be OS by a torp spread. This is ridiculous. It's definitely not "spam" but a mobile part of our ships with minor abilities.

As far as the romulan ships are concerned, i'd like to be able to use them in pvp too. Why not? While some hardcore pvp-ers won't like that, it doesn't mean it's stupid or not fun. Pvp will get RTS elements and i think it's pretty cool. I'm sure many people will.

I think it's time for non hardcore pvp-ers to say that we don't agree with the vocal minority always complaining about everything that isn't DHCs. Those assets should remain in game, including in pvp, because it can be a decivise tactical element. They sholdn't be made completely useless like the photonic "fake" fleet with garbage ships doing nothing. If you don't like this don't use it but don't ask for the removal of these consumables, they aren't a problem because RTS elements aren't a problem. FPS players are.
Except this isn't an rts style of combat. Rts is by definition a "real time strategy" game, this is a fire and forget ability on a long cooldown. That is not a rts. There isn't even any rts elements in this game! Space combat is more like an fps in this game then an rts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 27
01-13-2013, 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
Except this isn't an rts style of combat. Rts is by definition a "real time strategy" game, this is a fire and forget ability on a long cooldown. That is not a rts. There isn't even any rts elements in this game! Space combat is more like an fps in this game then an rts.
It doesn't mean it can't change. It doesn't mean it shouldn't change either. And i would love the ability to give basic orders to our summoned ships, such as "use ability X now", like on the boff UI. This would make sense, since we can alreay have a limited control over our pets. More options would be great. That's what we need, not a nerf of these new toys.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 28
01-13-2013, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
It doesn't mean it can't change. It doesn't mean it shouldn't change either. And i would love the ability to give basic orders to our summoned ships, such as "use ability X now", like on the boff UI. This would make sense, since we can alreay have a limited control over our pets. More options would be great. That's what we need, not a nerf of these new toys.
Combat in the game is too fast paced for that. I play Sto because it ISNT a space rts. The combat system is fine as it is (balance issues aside) if they keep adding more an more spam the player skill will get worse and worse.

That is bad for Sto pvp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,652
# 29
01-13-2013, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
TS/THY/regular Hypers
Breen Clusters
DPB'd mines
FAW/CRF
DOFF'd GW/TR
TBR
Theta/EWP
Fermion/Inversion

...that's before you get into combat/non-combat pets, photonic fleets, support fleets, etc, etc, etc. Heck, I need more caffeine and am pretty sure I'm forgetting stuff as is.

Bio-neurals, Assimilators, Barriers, Webs, the new Breen targetable, TS Trics, THY Omega, THY Plasma, and deployable turrets...

...I'm probably still forgetting something.
i wouldn't put any of those in the same category, except the ones i specificly mentioned. player originated abilities and even mines are fine, and not spam. npc assets with AI are the problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
So all the RTS games i've been playing during the last 10 years weren't pvp when i played against real people? That's the farce, mate.
have you noticed the difference between an apple and an orange lately? its pretty pronounced. i am of course referring specifically to sto space pvp.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,498
# 30
01-13-2013, 09:59 AM
My personal thoughts on them..

If the Romulan Call ins don't share a cool down with each other, that is bad. Because it just means Moar spam.

Give any ship with carrier hangers an ability to summon more ships, including Romulan DD's with VM, Shockwave, and TB, and the hull and shields they have, and it's trouble just waiting to happen, especially on the KDF side where some of the Pets are "better" then what the federation has in some respects.

As far as changing the ships abilities, Perhaps it could instead have Photonic Shockwave 3, and Scramble Sensors 1 or 2? It's still keeping in the spirit of the ship that way I suppose. And if it's Tractor beam also worked like the Danube Tractor beam where if a Danube's tractor beams are working on a target, then the DD's tractor beam can't activate.

How ever the biggest problem with this ship won't be from just 1 player calling one.. but if an entire team summons it.. Especially if those are each ships with a Carrier hanger.

And yes, this is a typical Carrier type making those kinds of complaints. Because I can see past being a Carrier pilot and how it can ruin game play to have those types of Pets in PVP.
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